Abortion is love

[John V]

I realized something. Even if babies get a lesser experience in heaven, there's still a lot of be said for killing them. They are guaranteed to go to heaven (according to most people) which has to be pretty good, even in the "lite" version. However, as soon as you don't kill them and they start thinking about stuff, they may choose the wrong religion. Even if we pretend there is only Christianity and Islam, that gives them a 50% chance of no heaven at all. Include every other possible religion and were down to 0%. But let's be charitable and say 10%. Heaven lite 100% seems like a safe bet against 10% better heaven 90% no heaven with optional torture.

Uh, no, two choices doesn't necessarily indicate a 50% chance of each.

You guys frequently complain about indoctrination of children. Now you pretend as if parents' belief have no effect on their children. Proverbs says that if you train up a child in the way he should go, he won't depart from it when he's older. Proverbs are generalities and not guarantees, but this agrees with the frequent observation of atheists. So, there's a high probability of the children of the saved ending up saved themselves.

No, you're not. You tried to pull a tu quoque by saying "we bully animals so it's ok for God to bully us". I don't know how you'd feel about god if he started reaching down and eating members of your family though.

When you found out that tu quoque didn't work on me, you tried to chase me round the houses to try and find some other way to make me look like a hypocrite, in order to complete your originally flawed to quoque.

Yes, you look like a hypocrite.

Prison system? What's next?

Address the point on the prison system and we'll see.

We're totally off topic even for the off topic point. I could answer about prison, but then it would be some other random thing. It seems very important to show its OK for God to do what he wants to us.

You're projecting. I don't go about starting threads saying it's OK for god to do what he wants. It's you guys who see it as very important to charge that god is immoral. And you supposedly don't even believe in him. Strange.

I admit there is some validity to your argument when it's presented to someone who thinks what we do to animals is OK.

As noted before, it also has validity with those who think that killing animals is murder. That means that most people who have ever lived are murderers who should be punished if there's a just god.

I hadn't considered that connection before, so points for that! I use the argument about a more intelligent and powerful species than us coming down and enslaving us for meat. Would we say "fair enough"? Doubtful.

So we're a bunch of hypocrites who accuse them in a self-serving manner.

Further, note the beauty of Jesus saying that we'll be judged as we judge others.

Arguments about self awareness are a rationalization, that is a totally arbitrary distinction when deciding who gets to do what to what.

Agreed. The simple fact of the matter is that we enslave and kill animals simply because we can, but we condemn enslavement and murder of humans merely because we wouldn't want it to happen to us.

Trying to compare raising animals for meat to abortion decisions is ludicrous. So I'll not be continuing the discussion.

I've heard that before.