(October 28, 2015 at 10:09 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote:(October 28, 2015 at 8:19 am)Nestor Wrote: It doesn't really matter what sophism Delicate or any other theist can cobble together in defense of their omnipotent, omnibenevolent monarch. Such a creature is simply incompatible with observation of the world.
1. If God exists, there would be no unnecessary and excessive suffering in the world.
2. There is unnecessary and excessive in the world.
3. God does not exist.
If both premises are true, the conclusion must follow. The logical deduction of God's attributes guarantees the first premise, and the only justifiable inference one is entitled to make - given the information we possess - obliges one to grant premise two. Therefore, the nonexistence of such a deity is established.
I would disagree with premise one. Scripture says early on, that this is not the case, and the suffering is the result of the fall and sin (separation from God). Excessive is somewhat of a subjective and ambiguous term; but even granting this, I'm assuming that you are overly focusing on one particular attribute of God, apart from the others. I don't think it is a contradiction in regards to God's attributes, that He allows suffering.
I also do not think that you can enter into the Christian worldview just enough to critique and then back out before the answers. Much of our suffering is self-inflicted (with the fall you might say all of it is). The suffering that you do see is temporary. However, there is an answer to this, that the separation and suffering do not to become everlasting. I don't think that your problem is with unnecessary suffering, just that you want it immediately. Many choose unnecessary suffering over God.
Not all suffering is the result of human action, though. Some suffering is the result of disease, famine, and weather...all things that Gaud allegedly created. If you're saying that we wouldn't have experienced those things if Adam hadn't fucked up, then those things are not "self-inflicted," nor are they deserved. It's vicarious descendent-punishing, which isn't justice by any proper definition of the word.
Your Gaud made everything, supposedly. This means that suffering exists for one of two reasons: either Gaud created suffering and evil and made them a part of the system by design because he wants us to suffer, which means that he can't be omni-benevolent, or he was unable to prevent the system he created from resulting in suffering, which means that he can't be omnipotent.
Verbatim from the mouth of Jesus (retranslated from a retranslation of a copy of a copy):
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you too will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. How can you see your brother's head up his ass when your own vision is darkened by your head being even further up your ass? How can you say to your brother, 'Get your head out of your ass,' when all the time your head is up your own ass? You hypocrite! First take your head out of your own ass, and then you will see clearly who has his head up his ass and who doesn't." Matthew 7:1-5 (also Luke 6: 41-42)
Also, I has a website: www.RedbeardThePink.com
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you too will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. How can you see your brother's head up his ass when your own vision is darkened by your head being even further up your ass? How can you say to your brother, 'Get your head out of your ass,' when all the time your head is up your own ass? You hypocrite! First take your head out of your own ass, and then you will see clearly who has his head up his ass and who doesn't." Matthew 7:1-5 (also Luke 6: 41-42)
Also, I has a website: www.RedbeardThePink.com
