Evidence that God exists

[fr0d0]

You did not ask me anything; you told my that I maintain a "twisted" point of view and that should "go outside and smell the mustard." That is an insult.

Fair enough

I do not ask repeatedly what has been answered, but I will certainly ask repeatedly what has not been answered.

Hmm.. atheist terrier! (joke)

I asked, "Does it bother you that the supposed god never does anything, and never shows up?" and you reply "it would be a logical impossibility." I fail to see why. Didn't he make the Sun stand still at Jericho? Didn't he part the waters of the Red Sea? Didn't he give Moses the Ten Commandments? Didn't he raise Lazarus from the dead? Apparently the authors of the Bible didn't have your understanding of logic.

Good points. Necessarily though, none of those events are provable. Hence the authors of the bible are still on plan.

If it's a logical impossibility that the supposed god would ever do anything, or ever show himself, then this poor god must really be a frustrated and lonely fellow.

So God needs to show himself because he needs the company?! I'll mark that down in the back of the bottom book in my pile about truths about God k. ()

For the record, I haven't said that God would never do anything or show himself; just that any such event couldn't be provable.

Further, essentially at no time in history has anyone ever seriously proposed the worship of a god that had no actual influence on nature and on human affairs. Historically worship, and obedience to a supposedly divine code set forth by a priesthood, was invariably based on the supposition that this would bring about good real effects, or at least that failure in this would cause bad real effects.<snip>

Actual effects are indeed tangible, if not provable. Enrichment of life isn't guaranteed, just available. In my understanding, failure isn't rewarded with punishment, but simply by lack of positive benefits.

It is only within the past two hundred or so years, as science gradually demonstrated that all that was formerly supposed to be an effect of god (e.g. plagues, comets, the various species of life) originates in fact in a chaotic nature blind to human interest. So modernly, people who want to maintain their religious belief and yet not deny science have retreated to this remarkable idea that it's not necessary that God have any real effects, because he's God anyway, and you should just, well, worship him. Because it, um, feels good.

Superstition was never what religion was about. That's a nice misconception that conveniently fits your theory.

It's the incredible shrinking God, really, a pathetic figure. In the old days He could smite Egypt with a plague of locusts and part the Red Sea; He could make the sun stand still so that the last remnants of heathen army could be slaughtered; but today all He can do is listen people's prayers. But be sure not to pray for anything that requires his intervention in nature, because it is not something that He is capable of delivering.

Given the above this doesn't follow.

What has changed between those days and these, of course, is not the powers of God but mankind's knowledge and command of nature.

Only if you take a literalist view. We arrogantly trash perfect rational reasoning and replace it with nothing.

But I rather suspect that if Moses has stood before the captive Jews in Egypt and called them to the worship of a god who would never once intervene in this world on their behalf, but would, at best, cause their hearts to feel his wonderful love during periods of communion with him, they would have soaked him in the latrine.

LOL

At the time people had far far greater understanding of faith and God. In this society we are like babies in our understanding in comparison. Maybe you and I can only aspire to a greatly watered down experience. This is a direct result of our ignorance, I'd suggest.

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@fr0d0: Is faith in Baal the Destroyer a tool for understanding the world? Is atheist belief a tool for understanding the world?

Yes