Hey everyone - I'm sorry I haven't been joining this discussion. My shop in SE Missouri finally sold; I've been scrambling for the last few days to make all the arrangements necessary to move our equipment out ASAP and have been trying to secure a place to which to move it in the KCMO area. I'm going to be intermittently here, and only briefly, until things settle back down in my new location.
I'm a little bit amazed this has gone on for so long, talking with a person who calls books like Against Our Will to be "propaganda" and not worth reading, when that person refuses to even acknowledge the books that spell out in extensive detail the kinds of things the OP keeps implying are in our imaginations, or are just feelings-based, etc.
How many times can one spell it out, that "the overwhelming majority are not like you describe" is not the NTS fallacy? Or that refusing to acknowledge basic definitions means that two sides can't really communicate, thereafter?
Kudos to Evie and Losty, who argued quite well, until I had to skip forward nearly 25 pages for time's sake. Kudos to Thump for making well-reasoned and decent counter-arguments, rather than being a jerk, as well. Love ya, Thump!
I'll return as soon as I am able to settle down for more than a few minutes. It will likely be in a week or so. Please let anyone know, if y'all see someone saying "where's Rocket?"
I'm a little bit amazed this has gone on for so long, talking with a person who calls books like Against Our Will to be "propaganda" and not worth reading, when that person refuses to even acknowledge the books that spell out in extensive detail the kinds of things the OP keeps implying are in our imaginations, or are just feelings-based, etc.
How many times can one spell it out, that "the overwhelming majority are not like you describe" is not the NTS fallacy? Or that refusing to acknowledge basic definitions means that two sides can't really communicate, thereafter?
Kudos to Evie and Losty, who argued quite well, until I had to skip forward nearly 25 pages for time's sake. Kudos to Thump for making well-reasoned and decent counter-arguments, rather than being a jerk, as well. Love ya, Thump!
I'll return as soon as I am able to settle down for more than a few minutes. It will likely be in a week or so. Please let anyone know, if y'all see someone saying "where's Rocket?"
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
