RE: The Moral Argument for God
December 5, 2015 at 7:26 pm
(This post was last modified: December 5, 2015 at 7:30 pm by Alex K.)
(December 5, 2015 at 1:06 pm)athrock Wrote:That is correct.(December 4, 2015 at 9:22 am)Quantum Wrote: That logic is simply wrong.
The way you have written 1., you can only conclude from it that IF God exists, THEN there are objectIve morals. Not the reverse.
Are you certain of this?
I'm not saying I am 100% certain because I'm not trained in logic (having only one course in college), but all the questions raised in this thread have sent me googling for a refresher. I can't link to the site but if I understood what I read correctly, Hotmath.com explains that the contrapositive of a true statement is also true.
If P, then Q. TRUE
If not Q, then not P. TRUE
So, in the moral argument:
If God exists (P), then objective moral values and duties exist (Q).
If objective moral values and duties do not exist (not Q), then God does not exist (not P).
But that is not what your OP says. There, it says
■
1. If objective moral values and duties do not exist, then God does not exist.
2. Objective moral values and duties do exist.
3. Therefore, God exists.
Do you think the two are somehow equivalent? The one you just quoted doesn't even attempt to prove that God exists. It only gives a possible proof that God does not exist. I am confuse
Quote:One other point that sort of tips me in the direction of thinking that the logic of the argument in the OP is valid is that IF IT WEREN'T, theists wouldn't even bother making the argument in the first place, because atheists wouldn't tolerate it.
Therefore, I'm inclined to believe that the logic is valid. The real questions concern the definitions of the terms and the premises themselves.
(December 5, 2015 at 1:04 pm)Irrational Wrote: No, we have ideas of good and bad. Therefore, that's that. It does NOT mean a gold absolute and universal standard external to our minds must exist.
Where do these ideas come from?
And if Nazis think that killing Jews is good, would you agree with them?
Guys, guys, we can pack our stuff and go home. They have discovered the Hitler argument. It's over. Atheism is done for.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition