(December 10, 2015 at 6:56 pm)Cecelia Wrote: Christian Heaven would be horrible. If you happen to get there, and someone you love and care about doesn't, Heaven would be hell either by virtue of not having free will, or by virtue of knowing that your loved one is suffering for eternity elsewhere.
I agree about the loved one suffering elsewhere thing. But what if everyone got to go?
I don't believe in free will either way. But again, let's focus on the best possible outcome of what "heaven" could be. If you think that entails "free will" then what about some heaven that includes free will?
(December 10, 2015 at 8:54 pm)Chad32 Wrote: I've said before eventually you're going to do everything that everyone could think of doign more times than you can count. Eventually there isn't anyhing you're ever going to want to do, because you've done it all countless times. Unless your memory is being wiped periodically, any existence is going to be horrible if given enough time. That's the problem with immortality.
David Deutsch shows in his book The Beginning of Infinity that we could in principle go on learning new things and expanding forever. There will never be a day where everything is known.
Even if that weren't the case, I personally don't have much of a problem with meditative tranquility. I think it is projection to think about this in terms of who we are right now. We're 'in heaven' in this thought experiment. Things are different. Case in point, perhaps, wireheading. Send an electric current through the right area of the brain, and it doesn't matter what someone is doing, they will be ecstatic. Boredom can be made a physiological impossibility. Not that we would necessarily want that, but in principle it at least shows that experience can be brought under control.
(December 10, 2015 at 9:03 pm)drfuzzy Wrote: The problem with the promise of any glorious afterlife is that people tend to focus on that, instead of keeping their focus on this life. People have given up family and friends and their own health, just for the promise of heaven. People have followed the worst cult leaders of all time - and drank the koolaid - for the promise of heaven. If this life is misery and you believe you'll wake up after death in paradise - well then, ONLY the threat of hell for committing suicide would make people not take their own lives. Oh yes, it's an insidious, dangerous lie.
And then there are the cringe-worthy platitudes people give each other at funerals . . .
I agree, I think the religious belief in heaven is terrible because it is false. But, 'a better world' actually is a possibility, and probably always will be. Who is to say that in 1000 years (maybe more / maybe less), whoever our descendants are won't be able to engineer paradise for themselves? To me that seems rather likely, provided that we aren't wiped out somehow.
(December 10, 2015 at 9:26 pm)Stimbo Wrote: And any form of tampering with what constitutes basic humanity, just to make the eternal reward bearable, would be the single worst crime against a species in the Universe.
Why? What is sacrosanct about humanity per se? I can't see how something could be a crime if no one is suffering.
