RE: FBI ran website sharing thousands of child porn images
January 23, 2016 at 3:13 pm
(This post was last modified: January 23, 2016 at 3:15 pm by paulpablo.)
(January 23, 2016 at 2:42 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:(January 23, 2016 at 2:33 pm)paulpablo Wrote: I'm not saying they failed or succeeded. I'm saying there has been some success rate. 137 arrests. The numbers of people who visited the website do not necessarily reflect the success of the operation since they are worldwide and not under the responsibility of the FBI.
Forming a percentage related to the entire number of people using the site is no measure of the success or failure of the operation.
Nonsense. If I start a program to round up stray cats, do I measure my success based on how many cats were rounded up in the next city, or how many stray cats there are as a whole in my own city?
The fact is that the FBI is not the only enforcement agency involved. You keep pointing out that they have no jurisdiction outside America -- but you keep ignoring the fact that so far as anyone here knows, there have been no foreign arrests.
(January 23, 2016 at 2:33 pm)paulpablo Wrote: Another inaccurate thing to say is that I'm comfortable with the ends justifying the means and law enforcement breaking the law.
What I'm comfortable with is FBI agents keeping an illegal website running for the duration of 2 weeks in order to catch 137 paedophiles.
This is a distinction without a difference.
(January 23, 2016 at 2:33 pm)paulpablo Wrote: I understand you're not comfortable with the operation I've said I agree there are ethical concerns, but what isn't a concern is the number you came up with as a successful arrest rate percentage, it just has no practical value.
If you have any numbers which support your points, please put them up. I'll wait.
That's right, you don't. You have the same number I have: less than ten pedophiles per day arrested for the duration of the site's FBI management. You choose to think of that as a success.
If you start a program to round up stray cats then your success is subjective to some degree. To another degree you could compare it to other stray cat rounding up operations. Each stray cat rounded up is some measure of success, if the amount of cats is lower than a set target that's a failure, if there is no set target then the degree to which the operation is successful is slightly subjective.
There is a difference between me being comfortable with law enforcement breaking the law and the ends justifying the means as a general ideology, and me thinking that in this instance it probably was worth it for the FBI to keep the site running for 2 weeks to arrest 137 offenders and to give further information to Interpol.
Not being able to see the difference between the two is like saying a person must enjoy being raped by 12 gorrillas, they told me they enjoy sex, being raped by 12 gorrillas is sex.
The way you're phrasing what you're saying makes it sound as if my ideology is that it's ok for law enforcement to break the law and the ends always justify the means.
The numbers do support my point.
My point is that there have been 137 arrests and other information given to Interpol and that I think that result is quite good for an operation lasting two weeks.
Your point is that the success rate of the operation was some very small percentage.
You have no numbers to support this because so far as anyone knows there have been no other arrests, so far as anyone knows there may have been other arrests, no one knows anything because that information isn't in the article. No one knows if the information is leading to more ongoing operations by other intelligence services or not. For all we know Interpol could have taken the results and thrown them away, but that isn't the fault of the FBI or the operation itself.
You're making a positive claim about the success rate based on information that you don't know one way other the other about. You don't know if Interpol has plans to arrest the people in future, if this is an ongoing operation.
You saying this is what the success rate is and giving an exact percentage is different from me saying 137 is quite good for two weeks work in my opinion. My opinion is strictly based on the numbers available your opinion is based on believing that everything that is in the article is all that there ever could be to know about this operation.
Are you ready for the fire? We are firemen. WE ARE FIREMEN! The heat doesn’t bother us. We live in the heat. We train in the heat. It tells us that we’re ready, we’re at home, we’re where we’re supposed to be. Flames don’t intimidate us. What do we do? We control the flame. We control them. We move the flames where we want to. And then we extinguish them.
Impersonation is treason.
