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Free will and humans
#61
RE: Free will and humans
(March 8, 2016 at 1:40 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:
(March 7, 2016 at 11:26 pm)pool the great Wrote: Beautiful.
I had that same thought,now I know it's called libertarian free will but I don't understand why you think it's false.

Say your brain has an algorithm for choosing the best amongst alternatives. And it always chooses what it thinks is best after examining the alternatives. Now suppose you are shopping for a car. You have, already in place, a set of values or things that you desire in a car. And the facts about what cars offer which things suitable to your already existing values doesn't change. So this algorithm, by combining the values with the facts can only come to one conclusion about which car is 'best'. Given that you always choose what you think is best for you (including times when you think it's best to do the wrong thing), then you can only choose that one car.

Now saying that we have the freedom to choose amongst alternatives is a way of saying that if we went back to a decision which we had made, under those same circumstances, we could have chosen to do otherwise. That in the case of our car example, even though the inputs into our brain in terms of our values and the facts about cars, the algorithm in our brain for calculating what is the best fit for us could have had a different conclusion, and thus we could have had a different choice. But what has changed to account for this possibility "to do otherwise" that would be required for free will to be real? The algorithm is deterministic, it hasn't changed. And our values and the facts about cars haven't changed. So how could we come to a different decision?

Lol.
You're using time traveling to disprove free will, you can't ' suppose we.. ' with time traveling, a concept that has never been practically implemented.
But I'll play your game anyway,

The algorithm is deterministic, it hasn't changed. And our values and the facts about cars haven't changed. So how could we come to a different decision?


You missed a serious variable in that equitation of yours - emotions of the human mind.
Because I could look at the best car there which is black in color then look at the second best there which is red in color and then choose the red car because my grandfather had a red car too, ie, I could overload the logical analysis with emotional interference and then arrive at different conclusions.

BTW, I hope, in your time travel example you aren't giving this example out under the impression that the future is set. In which case you'd be setting me up for failure. Because basically you would be saying ' only this can happen' beforehand and then asking me how anything else can happen.

In which case you would be making a baseless assertion that the future is set(not to mention time traveling is practically implemented) , then I'd want to see evidence for that claim. Wink
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Messages In This Thread
Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 7, 2016 at 3:43 am
RE: Free will and humans - by Silver - March 7, 2016 at 3:46 am
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 7, 2016 at 3:54 am
RE: Free will and humans - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 7, 2016 at 3:55 am
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 7, 2016 at 4:18 am
RE: Free will and humans - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 7, 2016 at 5:06 am
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 7, 2016 at 5:17 am
RE: Free will and humans - by robvalue - March 7, 2016 at 4:22 am
RE: Free will and humans - by Silver - March 7, 2016 at 4:22 am
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 7, 2016 at 4:28 am
RE: Free will and humans - by Silver - March 7, 2016 at 4:34 am
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 7, 2016 at 5:01 am
RE: Free will and humans - by The Grand Nudger - March 7, 2016 at 5:38 am
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 7, 2016 at 5:42 am
RE: Free will and humans - by The Grand Nudger - March 7, 2016 at 5:43 am
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 7, 2016 at 5:45 am
RE: Free will and humans - by The Grand Nudger - March 7, 2016 at 5:48 am
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 7, 2016 at 5:53 am
RE: Free will and humans - by The Grand Nudger - March 7, 2016 at 5:55 am
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 7, 2016 at 6:17 am
RE: Free will and humans - by The Grand Nudger - March 7, 2016 at 6:20 am
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 7, 2016 at 6:24 am
RE: Free will and humans - by The Grand Nudger - March 7, 2016 at 6:25 am
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 7, 2016 at 6:50 am
RE: Free will and humans - by ignoramus - March 7, 2016 at 6:51 am
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 7, 2016 at 6:54 am
RE: Free will and humans - by robvalue - March 7, 2016 at 6:57 am
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 7, 2016 at 7:06 am
RE: Free will and humans - by ignoramus - March 7, 2016 at 7:10 am
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 7, 2016 at 7:14 am
RE: Free will and humans - by pocaracas - March 7, 2016 at 7:32 am
RE: Free will and humans - by robvalue - March 7, 2016 at 7:40 am
RE: Free will and humans - by robvalue - March 7, 2016 at 9:03 am
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 7, 2016 at 10:06 am
RE: Free will and humans - by robvalue - March 7, 2016 at 10:09 am
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 7, 2016 at 10:36 am
RE: Free will and humans - by The Grand Nudger - March 7, 2016 at 11:22 am
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 7, 2016 at 12:34 pm
Free will and humans - by LadyForCamus - March 7, 2016 at 11:54 am
RE: Free will and humans - by robvalue - March 7, 2016 at 12:02 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 7, 2016 at 12:18 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by robvalue - March 7, 2016 at 3:28 pm
Free will and humans - by LadyForCamus - March 7, 2016 at 12:03 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by The Grand Nudger - March 7, 2016 at 12:33 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 7, 2016 at 12:37 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 7, 2016 at 9:48 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by The Grand Nudger - March 7, 2016 at 12:52 pm
Free will and humans - by LadyForCamus - March 7, 2016 at 1:05 pm
Free will and humans - by LadyForCamus - March 7, 2016 at 1:07 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by robvalue - March 7, 2016 at 1:08 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 7, 2016 at 9:41 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by The Grand Nudger - March 7, 2016 at 1:10 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 7, 2016 at 9:53 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by Kiekeben - March 7, 2016 at 10:08 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 7, 2016 at 11:26 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by Jehanne - March 7, 2016 at 11:33 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by Angrboda - March 8, 2016 at 1:40 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 9, 2016 at 6:59 am
RE: Free will and humans - by Angrboda - March 9, 2016 at 11:34 am
RE: Free will and humans - by Kiekeben - March 8, 2016 at 3:49 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by Whateverist - March 15, 2016 at 11:49 am
RE: Free will and humans - by Kiekeben - March 15, 2016 at 10:38 pm
Free will and humans - by LadyForCamus - March 7, 2016 at 10:34 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by Jehanne - March 7, 2016 at 10:58 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 9, 2016 at 1:00 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by The Grand Nudger - March 9, 2016 at 1:04 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 9, 2016 at 1:06 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by The Grand Nudger - March 9, 2016 at 1:11 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 9, 2016 at 1:14 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by Angrboda - March 9, 2016 at 2:30 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 9, 2016 at 9:52 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by comet - March 9, 2016 at 9:16 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by The Grand Nudger - March 9, 2016 at 9:53 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 9, 2016 at 10:27 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by Jehanne - March 9, 2016 at 11:06 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 9, 2016 at 11:11 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by Jehanne - March 10, 2016 at 12:11 am
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 10, 2016 at 1:08 am
RE: Free will and humans - by Jehanne - March 10, 2016 at 9:14 am
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 10, 2016 at 1:02 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by Jehanne - March 10, 2016 at 8:06 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 10, 2016 at 9:34 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by Jehanne - March 10, 2016 at 11:32 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 11, 2016 at 5:23 am
RE: Free will and humans - by Jehanne - March 11, 2016 at 8:22 am
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 11, 2016 at 11:04 am
RE: Free will and humans - by Jehanne - March 11, 2016 at 7:28 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 11, 2016 at 10:14 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by Jehanne - March 12, 2016 at 8:39 am
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 12, 2016 at 9:16 am
RE: Free will and humans - by Jehanne - March 12, 2016 at 10:12 am
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 12, 2016 at 10:33 am
RE: Free will and humans - by Jehanne - March 12, 2016 at 1:59 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by The Grand Nudger - March 9, 2016 at 10:57 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 9, 2016 at 11:03 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by Losty - March 10, 2016 at 1:42 am
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 10, 2016 at 2:14 am
RE: Free will and humans - by The Grand Nudger - March 10, 2016 at 9:30 am
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 10, 2016 at 1:01 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by The Grand Nudger - March 10, 2016 at 1:06 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 10, 2016 at 1:11 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by The Grand Nudger - March 10, 2016 at 1:16 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 10, 2016 at 1:21 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by The Grand Nudger - March 10, 2016 at 1:33 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 10, 2016 at 1:35 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by Losty - March 10, 2016 at 1:56 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 10, 2016 at 2:04 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by Losty - March 10, 2016 at 2:14 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 10, 2016 at 2:15 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by The Grand Nudger - March 10, 2016 at 1:38 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 10, 2016 at 1:42 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by The Grand Nudger - March 10, 2016 at 1:49 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by The Grand Nudger - March 10, 2016 at 2:05 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by KevinM1 - March 10, 2016 at 2:06 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 10, 2016 at 2:09 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by KevinM1 - March 10, 2016 at 2:11 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 10, 2016 at 2:14 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by KevinM1 - March 10, 2016 at 2:16 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 10, 2016 at 2:19 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by KevinM1 - March 10, 2016 at 2:21 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by comet - March 10, 2016 at 8:18 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by KevinM1 - March 10, 2016 at 2:13 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by The Grand Nudger - March 10, 2016 at 2:13 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by The Grand Nudger - March 10, 2016 at 2:22 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by Angrboda - March 10, 2016 at 8:24 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 10, 2016 at 9:36 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by KevinM1 - March 11, 2016 at 2:16 am
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 11, 2016 at 5:25 am
RE: Free will and humans - by KevinM1 - March 11, 2016 at 12:02 pm
Free will and humans - by LadyForCamus - March 10, 2016 at 9:35 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 10, 2016 at 9:39 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by Whateverist - March 11, 2016 at 12:50 am
RE: Free will and humans - by Whateverist - March 11, 2016 at 12:48 am
RE: Free will and humans - by The Grand Nudger - March 10, 2016 at 10:18 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by Little lunch - March 11, 2016 at 12:10 am
RE: Free will and humans - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - March 11, 2016 at 5:33 am
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 11, 2016 at 5:49 am
RE: Free will and humans - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - March 11, 2016 at 6:03 am
RE: Free will and humans - by Angrboda - March 11, 2016 at 8:59 am
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 11, 2016 at 11:02 am
RE: Free will and humans - by Angrboda - March 11, 2016 at 11:07 am
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 11, 2016 at 11:18 am
RE: Free will and humans - by Angrboda - March 11, 2016 at 11:27 am
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 11, 2016 at 11:32 am
RE: Free will and humans - by Whateverist - March 11, 2016 at 11:11 am
RE: Free will and humans - by The Grand Nudger - March 11, 2016 at 11:20 am
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 11, 2016 at 11:25 am
RE: Free will and humans - by The Grand Nudger - March 11, 2016 at 11:30 am
RE: Free will and humans - by The Grand Nudger - March 11, 2016 at 11:45 am
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 11, 2016 at 10:20 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by comet - March 11, 2016 at 10:22 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by Redbeard The Pink - March 12, 2016 at 10:51 am
RE: Free will and humans - by Panatheist - March 12, 2016 at 4:22 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by IATIA - March 16, 2016 at 12:26 am
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 16, 2016 at 5:06 am
RE: Free will and humans - by IATIA - March 16, 2016 at 11:36 am
RE: Free will and humans - by truth_seeker - March 16, 2016 at 3:55 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by IATIA - March 16, 2016 at 6:25 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by truth_seeker - March 17, 2016 at 10:00 am
RE: Free will and humans - by robvalue - March 16, 2016 at 5:44 am
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 16, 2016 at 8:03 am
RE: Free will and humans - by Little lunch - March 16, 2016 at 6:59 am
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 16, 2016 at 8:07 am
RE: Free will and humans - by robvalue - March 16, 2016 at 8:12 am
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 16, 2016 at 8:21 am
RE: Free will and humans - by robvalue - March 16, 2016 at 8:51 am
RE: Free will and humans - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 16, 2016 at 9:12 am
RE: Free will and humans - by IATIA - March 17, 2016 at 10:23 am
RE: Free will and humans - by truth_seeker - March 17, 2016 at 10:32 am
RE: Free will and humans - by IATIA - March 17, 2016 at 1:09 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by truth_seeker - March 17, 2016 at 1:29 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by IATIA - March 17, 2016 at 1:52 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by truth_seeker - March 17, 2016 at 2:11 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by The Grand Nudger - March 17, 2016 at 2:39 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by truth_seeker - March 17, 2016 at 7:58 pm
RE: Free will and humans - by Mudhammam - March 18, 2016 at 1:09 am
RE: Free will and humans - by IATIA - March 18, 2016 at 2:19 am

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