RE: Theist zone
March 9, 2011 at 7:28 am
(This post was last modified: March 9, 2011 at 7:31 am by Violet.)
(March 8, 2011 at 3:10 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote:Quote:You want tangible evidence for an intangible device?Oh. We are going THERE now? You dont have to give any evidence for it, and claim it is impossible to tell what a soul is beacause "its different from person to person", then you claim a soul is a "device" (begging the argument that it does manipulate tangible thing, yet is still intangible) and that is imposible to prove it exists because it is intagable.
To paraphrase Spock "we would need a common point of reference."
Metaphysics are weird... and I do not claim to be an expert on them (quite the contrary). A soul is a thing, and is therefore a device. If a soul was not a thing, it would not exist. Please try not to make a poor argument in my arena of thought (existentialism), you might make me cry. Tears of pain. How could you make a squirrel cry of pain? You monster.
The tangible is everything that is 'real'. However, as we cannot prove 'reality'... we tend to use 'tangible' to imply everything that is intersubjectively real to us. Just as every solid object you can name is intangible in this sense to every neutrino: that which lies outside of the intersubjective experience we share with much of our 'kind' (attention, solipsist argument: the intersubjective experience cannot be proven to be any different from the subjective experience, and all of those people that agree with you are actually of your own invention. Don't let Doubtie read this, he'll go on about it for weeks
![Wink Wink](https://atheistforums.org/images/smilies/wink.gif)
That does not mean it isn't there, and it does not mean that some can subjectively find it (Watson's argument, i think?). All in all, I believe that it is this inter-subjective understanding of tangibility which was being used... not the full on objective sense of the term (and this thread has nothing to do with touching with the hands, tangibility's first definition).
Quote:Fine. I own a sword. It is called "death of dreams". It has powerful magic on it and it is able to kill a god. I killed Jesus about 3 months ago and replaced him with loki so that you will be fooled into thinking Loki is Jesus. Do you pray to Jesus and hold him up as the prince of peace? Then you are really doing so for Loki. Death of Dreams is intangible. If you believe in Jesus then that is proof that Jesus is dead and you are doing the bidding of Loki.
Full peace is only available through death.
You are a pathetic 4 dimensional worm... a little toad-stickler isn't going to have you slaying a god. Now... a lesser demigod: maybe. We're talking the maybe in the sense of 'you got the jump on them, took them by complete surprise, while they were in the middle of the strongest orgasm of their life, completely fatigued after the hard work of the past ten years building up to that moment, stuffed full of the most lethargic-making food known to demigod-kind, and still puzzling over today's crossword puzzle'. In other words, without that little sword: you wouldn't be capable of killing anything of the sort... hell: just wounding a demigod is otherwise beyond you.
With the sword, you still need the above kind of maybe to have a shot at it... and frankly: that's the kind of maybe you have to plan decades before it will occur... and even then there is no guarantee.
Did i also mention that the god in question is omniscient, so you can't even sneak up on him? Oh dear, what can we do about that. I can talk false tales of slaying Regulos too... but nobody would believe me if my story centered around how a little trinket in my hands brought down a being known for devouring whole planets. Hell, nobody would believe me if I inserted 500 legions of Telara's best into the battle as well. This is because if it was that simple to kill the Baleful God of Death: we'd have done it already.
Quote:Quote:Do you often ask people for the impossible, and then wonder why they can't give it to you?I understand. The soul doesnt exist because Death of Dreams killed every single soul in existence when it slayed Jeebus. I understand it is difficult for you to prove that your soul exists after I killed it so many moons ago.
So in other words, everyone that isn't me is dead... and you've changed me from a mighty demigod that makes use of the souls of heros and legends gone by... into just a normal human?
Words cannot possibly express what I think of what you claim to have done... but I can give you the understatement of the year: I am angry. With the blood vessels in my eyes popping and blood pouring out of my ears. That is how angry.
Quote:Quote:Not if it doesn't sit right with you, you shouldn't have. Souls are the subject of metaphysics, by nature they are taken on strong faith if taken at all.I agree. Just like Death of Dreams is also a subject of metaphysics as well.
Metaphysics is not a word that is equatable with tall tales. Metaphysics is "the branch of philosophy that deals with the first principles of things, including abstract concepts such as being, knowing, substance, cause, identity, time, and space."
It is not the branch of philosophy behind sarcasm and misrepresented examples
![Tongue Tongue](https://atheistforums.org/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
Quote:Quote:Breathing is an interesting concept for those who do not. Monogamy is interesting to me because I am not, and I have no idea how that experience feels. I need more than a "what it is" to fully claim an understanding of it... i need to 'feel it' to actually be able to relate to those who live with monogamy. And people that are not polyamorous need to know more than "what it is" to relate to me about it.Exactly. And the "Jesus/god feeling" that you are feeling is actually proof that Loki is fooling you after I utilized the intangible device of Death of Dreams.
*Takes her real world sword and figuratively jabs it into the good reverend's side to see if he stops this nonsense when he is dead*
Quote:Quote:Why does a soul need to be proven by empirical means? It would seem that you've already closed the case on the soul, and are running through the formalities. As defined, a soul is not tangible. This means that tangible measurements (height, width, weight) do not apply to it... and it cannot be proven to exist by finding these things... as doing so would not be finding a soul as it has been defined.and since you have just tossed out the requirement of empirical evidence, then you MUST be willing to believe anything I say to you, especially Death of Dreams..or do you want Emperical evidence for my claims, but want me to not ask for empircal evidence of you? I might as well just say everything that you say is truth and real, no matter how absurd:
I can place my faith in anything... but there is no reason I would have to place it in you, or what you say, or your anecdotal sarcasm. I don't ask for empirical evidence of souls: i've already closed the case on them for myself. I'm honest about it: I don't ask for scientific evidence of the soul or gods, as I believe they do not exist and I understand that i can no more find scientific evidence of such things than any of the characters in my video games experience the world in which I live.
Quote:You = Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall.
Me = Well, I am not allowed to ask for evidence, so it obviously must be true, especially if he "feels" it is tru in his heart. Cant go wrong there.
You = Jesus is my bitch ho
Me = WOW. You must be all powerful! Do you want me to worship you?
You = gyhtra is the way of allowing dertig to manifest in your hutry
Me = I havent the slightest idea what you said, but dare I question it or risk not having dertig manifest in my hutry? I dare not risk it!
I despise english grammar, fyi. But I actually have fun learning about it in my russian class... kind of ironic as I understand it
![Tongue Tongue](https://atheistforums.org/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
Jesus is not my bitch... and it would do you well to remember that I am submissive. I am not all powerful, but I am more powerful than you, and would much appreciate you worshiping me
![Tiny Tiger Tiny Tiger](https://atheistforums.org/images/smilies/tinytiger.gif)
*Disclaimer: all of my narcissism in this post is false, and performed in the intent of mild humor (Very mild, you probably didn't even smile, because you make squirrels cry tears of pain!).
Think of hide tags as my clothes. In any post of mine that didn't have them: I WAZ NAKID!
![Tiger Tiger](https://atheistforums.org/images/smilies/tiger.gif)
Please give me a home where cloud buffalo roam
Where the dear and the strangers can play
Where sometimes is heard a discouraging word
But the skies are not stormy all day