Why it's important to know there is an objective morality.

[robvalue]

You are right Rob. And I agree with you. I guess I was trying to figure it all out and the only way I could cite an example was to take a page from an IEP but yes, two totally and completely different things.

Thank you for educating me about the morality part of it. I've always had trouble trying to understand exactly what it was.

You're welcome

I think it's a fascinating subject, and that I'm still learning about it. I didn't mean to belittle your example at all, objective standards have a very important role to play in many areas of life.

The important thing, for me, is whether the objective standard is useful. Measuring progress, based on what people have been learning, is very useful and can often be done using an objective standard. Agreeing exactly on what the standard is and how it's applied are very much up for discussion, but it makes sense to apply the current most meaningful standard to everyone equally. I agree that individuals making judgements about other individuals is going to be problematic, although in some situations in may be appropriate.

Morality is such a very strange and different beast, so much so that people end up talking past each other much of the time. People can mean any one of, or combination of:

1) Individual's morality
2) Societal norms
3) Scientific explanations for empathy
4) Measuring outcomes of actions
5) Assessing intent of actions
6) Allowing for beliefs held at the time
7) Allowing for state of mind
8) What God wants

And so on. There are so many possible facets of it that to try and describe the whole thing in one go is extremely hard. Making "moral progress" is not quite the same as progress towards a learning goal. For the latter, you have very clear and agreed things to achieve. For morality, every individual decides on their own goals, and there is no consensus. Nor should there be, except to try and agree to reasonable compromises within a society.

The problem with theists is agreeing goals in the first place. If they want "to please God", first and foremost, we're just not talking about the same thing anymore. That is generally the hardcore ones who will put that as their first goal, though. But having it in there at all is potentially poisonous, whatever weighting it has.