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RE: Aren't Science vs. Creation Debates......rather pointless?
March 26, 2016 at 6:07 pm (This post was last modified: March 26, 2016 at 6:09 pm by drfuzzy.
Edit Reason: typo!
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(March 26, 2016 at 11:33 am)maestroanth Wrote: Testhgh
(March 26, 2016 at 11:10 am)drfuzzy Wrote:
Well, you did hit a nerve. Your tone was the bragging posturing was the same as I run into all the time - guys talking your ear off about how they're geniuses and better than everybody else, but when you put them through a tryout, they can't even sight-read the easiest example. Then they try to yell at you because "I don't need any of that stuff, just let me play, you're an elitist snob". He was followed by a "brilliant" singer who brought a high soprano accompaniment, when she's a contralto, and tells me to "just play what's there, I'll make it work". I did, she couldn't, and she was cussing me out for being incompetent. So yeah, your post sounded like #3. I apologize for my tone, I should have just posted the research.
Hmmm....we may have more common ground than you think actually because I know those types and they piss me off. Those PP musicians are often terrible because they have their heads so far up their @$$ for so long. I had a PP neighbor that was that arrogant and cocky (this was before I even really knew what perfect pitch was) and he'd name notes of everything and consider himself this great musician. Well, I was baffled because he didn't have much theory skills and I had to ear train chords and intervals and he didn't even know what those were and wouldn't help me. His philosophy was, "if you had perfect pitch like me, you wouldn't need those things..", which didn't make sense to me since chords and intervals is fundamental how we hear notes as music.
Later, I learned that the key center actually was confusing my objectivity on naming interval cues. With no one to train with me, I finally found prolobe on the web 14 years ago which really helped me sort out what I was hearing in key difference cues and what I was hearing as intervals cues. Then I drilled everything hardcore memorizing it all and I really started to excel.
Of course, after about a semester of hard work, I went back to my neighbor and told him that I was able to memorize all the notes, intervals, etc. by ear even perfect pitch. He was ghastly offended and was like, "So you think you learned perfect pitch like I have? That's not possible. You have to be born with it. I think you just learned really good relative pitch." - he acted like it was this superman pedestal impossible to reach. In turn, I was offended and I told him I knew the difference and told him to come over so I can show him.
Anyway, he did, we named pitches equally well on the piano and plucking strings, so we needed something more, and I threw him on the final level of prolobe where you had to name crazy random note chords all in random timbres and he failed horribly while I shined since I worked hard on all that crap. I told simply him that see, even your perfect pitch needs practice now and then. Oh maaannn, he was pissed being humbled like that in HIS turf and was coming up with excuses why "I still couldn't have it since I wasn't born with it, or the program must be faulty, etc." He just couldn't accept the evidence in front of his eyes.
All it did for me is leave a nasty pit in my stomach realizing that people will just "believe what they want to believe" for sake of tradition, religion, or their egos even in the face of direct evidence of reality. It's bizarre. And makes me sick.
Yeah. We're all capable of using . . . anything . . . to try and pull of the "I'm superior" bit, aren't we? I get a little sick when I'm caught doing it. Thanks for calling me on that point. But musicians fight this all the time, modern media makes music look easy. On piano, it takes 7 years of constant study and practice just to get to the point of basic proficiency . . . say, playing Xmas carols for people to sing along. I have worked for years as a professional accompanist, and I get SO tired of people saying "you get PAID for that? It's just a talent, right? You're born with it." Well by the time I was 25 I had 19 years of regular lessons, and 6 years of intensive college lessons that required 4 hours of practice per day, so no, it's not "just a talent". (sigh) I get where you're coming from now - you had to work to get your skills and you have the "born with it" folks putting you down. We're in the same boat.
I'll look at your research after my (LAST EVER HALLELUJAH!!) set of Easter Masses is over. Peace!
"The family that prays together...is brainwashing their children."- Albert Einstein
Thanks for calling me on that point. But musicians fight this all the time, modern media makes music look easy. On piano, it takes 7 years of constant study and practice just to get to the point of basic proficiency . . . say, playing Xmas carols for people to sing along. I have worked for years as a professional accompanist, and I get SO tired of people saying "you get PAID for that? It's just a talent, right? You're born with it." Well by the time I was 25 I had 19 years of regular lessons, and 6 years of intensive college lessons that required 4 hours of practice per day, so no, it's not "just a talent". (sigh) I get where you're coming from now - you had to work to get your skills and you have the "born with it" folks putting you down. We're in the same boat.