Proving God in 20 statements

[smfortune]

I'm with Alex on this.


What does this actually mean ?  Aside from the statement being vague enough to not be utile, it may very well be false.

Boru

... and if it's true, what caused the Causer?

Note (iii) of the proof dealt with this: (iii) God is "first cause" by definition and therefore not needed to be caused; however, God still does not necessarily violate the premise that all things are caused because the premise allows for self-causation, which can be applied to God: God causes God to exist. ...... But removing God does not get rid of the need for a first cause. Suppose the Universe is self-causing, what created the created the universe in the first place? The criticism is really, really misplaced.

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God of the gaps everytime. "We don't know the answer, therefore geud". "We don't see another answer, therefore jebus". Like Rob said: arguments aren't evidence for god.

There's no gap here. We know that scientific explanations will be either incomplete or inconsistent and they are in such a way so that an explanation of the Universe must regress to an infinitely great power, i.e. God. This isn't a gap. It's an inescapable fact.

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Thanks guys (and gals) for taking the time to respond.

For those arguing the no uncaused things /quantum fluctuations, etc. premise, this was addressed in notes (i), (ii) and (iii) of the proof.

That's not what we argued. You need to establish what the word means in the context, and then that the premise so defined is true.

We didn't argue anything. I presented a proof asking for criticism or rebuttal. Causation is typically defined as: connection between two events or states such that one produces or brings about the other; where one is the cause and other is its effect. Also called causality. There is no contention here.

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"God still does not necessarily violate the premise that all things are caused because the premise allows for self-causation, which can be applied to God: God causes God to exist."  

            What a circular convoluted pile of bullshit.  Why do theists try so desperately to prove that their imaginary friend exists?  When the imaginary friend shows up and says "hi" it will be worth paying attention.  Until then, it's irrelevant.

Your colorful language is quite indicative. However, there is an escapable "bullshit": either God is self causing or the Universe is self-causing. Remove God and your still left with a first cause problem.