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Consciousness is simply an illusion emergent of a Boltzmann brain configuration....
#19
RE: Consciousness is simply an illusion emergent of a Boltzmann brain configuration....
(April 5, 2016 at 2:42 am)robvalue Wrote: I know what you're saying. From a practical viewpoint, I agree with you entirely. We can use the scientific method to learn much about the "objective reality". My viewpoint is more fundamental, that saying this "objective reality" is real, is rather meaningless. We can't ever know it's real. We can't even demonstrate it is real, in a non-circular way. If real just means it's part of what appears to be this objective reality, then that is cool, but it doesn't get around the problem.

All of this could be entirely valid, yet I'm dreaming. Or we're a manifestation of a computer program. So yes, I'm talking about solipsism. And no, it's of no practical importance whatsoever! I'm totally on board with simply assuming that our "objective reality" is real, and meaningfully so, and learning what we can about it. I'm simply noting the limitations of our techniques, to see things from a perspective that isn't constantly intertwined with the thing we're trying to assess. But like I've said, it's no barrier to me. Nor do I suppose it to be for anyone else. I'm a pragmatist by behaviour, but a philosopher by thought.

The flip side is actually more positive. If we are some sort of unreal manifestation, it makes no actual difference. It's still as real as it appears, to us. So it's not really a half-empty approach Smile My pragmatic side works just the same.

I appreciate your perspective. I would add, however, that whether we are dreaming, or a simulation, or a brain in a vat, what you really seem to be arguing is that there is an objective reality (take your solipsistic pick), but that this reality we perceive might not be it. And again, while we can't currently rule out that what we perceive is entirely an illusion, there seems to be no credible evidence that it is indeed illusory. I think some philosophers tie themselves up in mental knots imagining what is possible, but forget to examine what is probable. I would think the most probable explanation is that reality is what we currently perceive (however imperfectly), and that the Matrix (or whatever other reality might be the actual "real" one) would add unnecessary complexities. Not only would that other reality need to exist of its own accord, but it would also have to sustain the complexities of this illusory reality. So when you say, "We can't ever know it's real," I have to agree with you if your criteria is 100% certainty. (Although future generations may be able to device methods to falsify solipsistic hypotheses entirely.) But if you apply Occam's Razor ("more things should not be used than are necessary"), we get a very high probability that we can trust our perceived reality is the objectively real one. But I greatly appreciate the civil discourse.
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RE: Consciousness is simply an illusion emergent of a Boltzmann brain configuration.... - by Time Traveler - April 5, 2016 at 9:35 am

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