(April 16, 2016 at 2:54 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote:(April 16, 2016 at 1:50 pm)Jehanne Wrote: I would suggest that you read this:
http://spot.colorado.edu/~morristo/craig...finite.pdf
http://spot.colorado.edu/~morristo/EndlessFuture.pdf
Not everything in mathematics is "common sense"; I used to make my living as an analyst in statistical process control. Consider the "Birthday problem":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthday_problem
Most common-folk people do not give good estimates for this problem when asked, however, the mathematics are indisputable (except, perhaps, by the likes of William Lane Craig).
Did you finish counting to infinity already?
I didn't really see anything in those articles that refutes the idea that an actual infinity is not possible. But, I would be happy to discuss any of the arguments that you think are superior.
Your birthday problem is interesting. I only looked at it quickly, but off hand, it seems that we are still left, with who has the better reasons for their claim. In any case, it would seem that by your argument, that while the scientist expertise, would make them better at collecting the data, forming theories, and making hypothesis, that the logical induction based on those, would be better suited to those whose expertise is in logic.
I am an electrical engineer. A large part of my job is to program and troubleshoot machine controls. I have learned over the years, to always listen to the operators. I do this as part of the investigative process, and for diagnostics. I often explain to them, what I am finding, and quite often have had them tell me, that they have no clue what I am talking about. Yet there have been a number of times, that right after telling me this, they come up with a good idea, as to how to solve the problem.... There are also those who will get stuck on their theory, and not listen to the reasons I give for why that is not the case. Similarly; I have seen good maintenance people shut down, by people with a piece of paper who think they know better, because of that certification. They ignore reason, and often to their detriment.
This is a well-described problem/issue in human nature; it's also why Peer Review is probably the single most important part of science.
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.