RE: Dr. Craig is a liar.
April 18, 2016 at 10:52 am
(This post was last modified: April 18, 2016 at 10:56 am by SteveII.)
(April 15, 2016 at 2:59 pm)Esquilax Wrote:Quote:The "chief result" of the paper is not that the universe had a beginning, but that beyond the beginning of the expansion boundary, new physics are required to give accurate descriptions. In fact, the conclusion actually brings up a potentially eternal model of the universe, a recycling model, that fits right into their physics, but that requires additional analyses. So not only do the actual conclusions specifically avoid giving an answer on the beginning of the universe, not only are they ill suited to actually do so anyway, but they bring up an alternative that matches an eternal universe just fine.
Now that you know this, now that you've had it directly quoted to you from the paper itself- and there are pdfs of it online if you cared to read them- do you agree that Craig's assertion that the paper demonstrates the universe had a beginning is incorrect? Was Craig wrong on the science here, since you now know what the contents of the science actually are?
For reference, the BVG paper was 2003.
Vilenkin in his book (which comes 3 years after the paper): "It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. With the proof now in place, cosmologists can no longer hide behind the possibility of a past-eternal universe. There is no escape, they have to face the problem of a cosmic beginning (Many Worlds in One [New York: Hill and Wang, 2006], p.176)."
In the Youtube video I posted (2012) Vilenkin showed that models which do not meet this one condition (any universe which has, on average, been expanding throughout its history cannot be infinite in the past) still fail for other reasons to avert the beginning of the universe. Vilenkin concluded, “None of these scenarios can actually be past-eternal.”
Vilenkin must not understand the science either.
You are simply refusing to call the space-time boundary the beginning of our universe. And then somehow you conclude because WLC calls it the beginning (as does Vilenkin), WLC does not understand the science.
It is unavoidable. If you need "new physics", a universe generator, or some other mechanism (a cause) to move across the boundary than you have a beginning of our universe.