(April 25, 2016 at 3:27 pm)SteveII Wrote:(April 25, 2016 at 11:36 am)Time Traveler Wrote: There is a fourth absurdity with a timeless god, and that is that god's very existence couldn't have preceded the decision, action, and creation of the universe. Thus, if the universe had a beginning, so did god. If god is eternal, so then the universe. And given that we have evidence of the universe, but zero evidence for god, Occam's razor slices the unnecessary deity out like an unwanted tumor.
Jehanne, Do you see the irony that you are objecting to God based on logic and metaphysics that you want to deny exist when convenient to you?
If timelessness is not an essential, but rather a contingent characteristic of God, God could have decided to exist timelessly in the past and then decide to create the universe and in doing so became temporal.
Regarding claiming that God can be timeless so why can't the universe be, there is at least one big difference: The universe consist of physical "stuff" that is expanding. It cannot be past eternal. see here, where Vilenkin concludes, “there are no models at this time that provide a satisfactory model for a universe without a beginning.” God does not consist of stuff that is in a state of expansion and therefore had a beginning.
So, what do you have? You really have evidence of the universe having a beginning which is evidence of a transcendent cause.
You and Craig love to quote cosmologists when they agree with you, but you also love to "cherry-pick" from their ideas. I already posted this link from Vilenkin:
https://arxiv.org/abs/1512.01819
Quote:Vacuum bubbles may nucleate and expand during the inflationary epoch in the early universe. After inflation ends, the bubbles quickly dissipate their kinetic energy; they come to rest with respect to the Hubble flow and eventually form black holes. The fate of the bubble itself depends on the resulting black hole mass. If the mass is smaller than a certain critical value, the bubble collapses to a singularity. Otherwise, the bubble interior inflates, forming a baby universe, which is connected to the exterior FRW region by a wormhole. A similar black hole formation mechanism operates for spherical domain walls nucleating during inflation. As an illustrative example, we studied the black hole mass spectrum in the domain wall scenario, assuming that domain walls interact with matter only gravitationally. Our results indicate that, depending on the model parameters, black holes produced in this scenario can have significant astrophysical effects and can even serve as dark matter or as seeds for supermassive black holes. The mechanism of black hole formation described in this paper is very generic and has important implications for the global structure of the universe. Baby universes inside super-critical black holes inflate eternally and nucleate bubbles of all vacua allowed by the underlying particle physics. The resulting multiverse has a very non-trivial spacetime structure, with a multitude of eternally inflating regions connected by wormholes. If a black hole population with the predicted mass spectrum is discovered, it could be regarded as evidence for inflation and for the existence of a multiverse.