(May 3, 2016 at 7:03 pm)wiploc Wrote:(May 3, 2016 at 5:03 pm)SteveII Wrote: God existed timelessly and changeless causally prior to the universe. Atemporal.
"Causally prior." I like it. If causes need not (chronologically) precede effects, then the creation event need not have happened yet. If the Large Hadron Collider doesn't manage it, some later--even more powerful--collider may do the job. If causes need not precede effects, your god is out of a job.
If Jehovah can exist timelessly and changelessly, atemporally, causally prior to the rest of the universe, why can't other things? Why can't the cosmic egg that caused the big bang have existed atemporally? For that matter--I had a big mac for lunch--how do I know that my big mac wasn't causally prior to the partaverse?
Unseen things and/or entities, which have no evidence for their existence (except, in the imaginations of those who believe), can exist without cause and atemporally. However, things which can be seen, or at least measured empirically, cannot exist atemporally, and therefore, that proves that unseen entities, for which there is no evidence, must exist atemporally. Of course, we are limited in believing that only the "great" monotheistic religions of this World are eligible to be believed in, which leaves Jesus of Nazareth, because Mohammad, a historical figure, had some incorrect historical ideas.