(May 8, 2016 at 7:57 pm)SteveII Wrote:(May 8, 2016 at 12:16 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: Let's not also forget the Christians' (at least in the USA) tireless efforts to put out the message that this is a Christian country, and that Others don't "really" belong, even if they're somewhat tolerated. That's why it was so important to get "In God We Trust" on the money, to alter the Pledge of Allegiance, et cetera, and then to flaunt it every chance they get. Crosses and monuments to the Ten Commandments on our public properties. Politicians and criminal defendants swearing on the Bible. Major holidays for the Christian holidays, such as Christmas. And so on it goes-- the pressure is everywhere, and we as a social species have evolved a strong tendency toward conformity. That degree of social pressure can eventually cause a person to try to conform to the wishes of family/community, especially in times of emotional trauma and loneliness... the Christians openly recognize this, which is why they pimp the whole "Jesus, the friend of a wounded heart" message so heavily.
As has already been stated, what would be good evidence of the "truth" of Christian claims would be to find a place where the Word was independently sent to, say, the residents of Palau, prior to the arrival of Westerners in that area. The very fact that every religion spreads as a meme is strong evidence to me that it's not really "from God", but a product of human psychology. For instance, they claim God sent Jesus to tell everyone on earth about how to get to heaven... well, everyone on earth except for the ~75 generations of Native Americans who went nearly 1500 years without getting to hear that message. God is apparently a pretty poor planner, as he appears to have had no knowledge of those people in the "New World" until Westerners stumbled upon it. (Thus the attempted Mormon "solution" to this problem, laughable as its claims are.) And as has already been pointed out, it's "just amaaaaazing" that people overwhelmingly tend to join the religion into which they are born/raised, or in which culture they have been immersed.
Aren't you confusing cause and effect? Why do we have Christianity woven through the society and government? Because in the past, the majority (even more than now) were Christians. So you are kind of making the argument there are a lot of Christians because there were a lot of Christians.
Regarding your point about those who have not heard, I found this paragraph that summed it up nicely: But then we face a difficulty: Is possible that only those who have heard about Christ can be saved? Or is salvation also available for those who haven't heard about him? The element which solves this dilemma is the criteria according to which God will judge those who never heard about Christ and grant them salvation. The Bible states that God is holy and will judge humans with justice (Acts 17,31), according to the available measure of revelation they had and their response to it, expressed through their deeds (Romans 2,6ff), words (Matthew 12,36-37) and thoughts (Hebrews 4,12). The amount of revelation one has determines a consequent measure of responsibility on his behalf (Luke 12,47-48). In the Western world, almost anyone has elementary knowledge about Christianity, and therefore the terms of one's salvation are clear. As for those who never had the chance to hear the Christian message or heard a perverted version of it, it is obvious that their judgment will require other criteria than responding to the historical Jesus Christ. http://www.comparativereligion.com/neverheard.html
I don't argue that we have a heavy tradition of Christianity (because of the majority population) in this country. However, our country is a secular nation, deliberately founded by both Christian and Deist (some of whom would be called agnostics, today) men to be free from religious domination of government, as found in the European nations at the time.
The Pledge and the Motto, to which I am referring, were changed in 1954, at the behest of the Knights of Columbus (a Catholic organization, primarily), at the height of the Red Scare and the "House Un-American Activities Committee" (ironically the most communist-sounding title of all time), and so the members of Congress were in danger of being called Reds if they voted against it. The Pledge was written by a Baptist minister in the 1890s, and originally read "one nation indivisible". Thus, the Christian movement deliberately divided the phrase by inserting their monotheism, thereby excluding polytheists and atheists alike, because why not? Fuck them, right?
Even more amusing is the fact that our motto read E Pluribus Unum prior to that change, which means "out of many, one", meaning that again, the Christians managed to divide our nation with their attempts to increase the theocracy level of our secular government.
So, respectfully, I do not believe I am getting cause and effect confused. Under our Constitution, religion is to be a private affair, freely practiced by all Americans (or not, as our conscience tells us), and is not to be part of our democratic human (secular) government. And yet, at every turn, Christians do everything in their power to insert their religious practices. If you had a good grasp of world history, it would horrify you as much as it does us.
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.