Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: August 11, 2025, 3:20 am

Thread Rating:
  • 1 Vote(s) - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Problem dealing with death as an atheist
#40
RE: Problem dealing with death as an atheist
Carnavon Wrote:Another aspect to consider is that the "creation" of a human by scientific methods does not by implication suggest that a soul would be absent. Normal fertlilization of an egg by a sperm cell does not by implication suggest the presence of a soul.
Actually, the creation of a human by scientific methods does imply that a soul is absent: firstly, it implies that life has been born accidentally, by biological means. Secondly, if man can create man, then it means that a man with a soul is the same as a man without soul, which means that the soul is the same as non-existing, which implies that the soul does not exist. Also, if a man is created by scientific methods, then that contradicts the christian bible, because the bible claims that the man became a living being by receiving a soul.

As about cells and humans, in the bible it is written that the man has begun to live by receiving the "breath/spirit of life" (breath = spirit). About the animals it is also mentioned that they have "breath/spirit of life". About plants is never mentioned that they would have "life" (or, spirit of life) in them. It also think that it sounds absurd to claim that every cell has a soul.

Anyway, a question for you: if you believe in God, and if a man is created by scientific means (i.e. without soul) then will he go to paradise or to hell, after death? Because, he would be a normal man, just like you and me, doing and feeling and believing things, just like you and me, etc.

And the creation of a living cell from atoms also implies that life has been created by accident.

(April 11, 2011 at 1:47 pm)Carnavon Wrote: Exactly. So you gamble using the information you have available? The information you supplied (and scientifically true), suggests that the odds are in favour of a soul, not so? (using your argument). Thus any choice that is made in opposition to available facts is made on the basis of personal preference?
Getting down to it, the chances are 50/50 that a soul exists after death (although near-death experiences suggests odds in favour of a soul seperate from the body).
Considering this, and knowing what the alternatives are for the destination of the soul, would a shrewd person not hedge his bets by taking the safest option - where the potential "penalties" are eliminated without any negative consequences of this choice?

I was almost certain that you would lead the discussion here. The first problem with your theory is that a man cannot believe in God because He may exist. The second problem is this: what are the odds that your religious path is correct? For instance, if the islamic god Allah exists (and He may exist though He is unfair, racist, a deceiver, etc. - a god that perhaps no mentally healthy person would desire), then you will go in the hell He has prepared, because you are a christian. You can't just pick the seemingly safest theory, because you always have something big to lose, if you're wrong.

As about NDEs, they seem to prove the existence of souls. e.g. I've read or heard somewhere that after a 'death' experience, the person has heard and seen things that happened after the brain ceased to function. And, if I remember well, there was also a thing when a blind person from birth had a surgery and got to a NDE, after which he/she has claimed to have seen for the first time, and he/she has described the objects in the surgery room correctly.
Also, I've just found this: http://www.near-death.com/experiences/evidence03.html
However, these are not "evidence", because they cannot answer to the impossible question "what if it's not so?" (i.e. in this particular case, "what if there is another explanation?").
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Problem dealing with death as an atheist - by Cynical8 - March 4, 2011 at 9:41 pm
RE: Problem dealing with death as an atheist - by theVOID - March 4, 2011 at 11:43 pm
RE: Problem dealing with death as an atheist - by theVOID - March 5, 2011 at 11:56 pm
RE: Problem dealing with death as an atheist - by Ateo - March 6, 2011 at 3:13 pm
RE: Problem dealing with death as an atheist - by Thor - March 7, 2011 at 12:55 pm
RE: Problem dealing with death as an atheist - by Thor - March 7, 2011 at 6:23 pm
RE: Problem dealing with death as an atheist - by Shell B - March 7, 2011 at 11:43 pm
RE: Problem dealing with death as an atheist - by Jax - March 12, 2011 at 6:05 am
RE: Problem dealing with death as an atheist - by Cinjin - April 12, 2011 at 11:35 pm
RE: Problem dealing with death as an atheist - by Zenith - March 10, 2011 at 1:49 pm
RE: Problem dealing with death as an atheist - by jason56 - March 15, 2011 at 8:38 pm
RE: Problem dealing with death as an atheist - by Zenith - April 9, 2011 at 11:50 am
RE: Problem dealing with death as an atheist - by Zenith - April 11, 2011 at 3:25 pm
RE: Problem dealing with death as an atheist - by Zenith - April 17, 2011 at 8:36 pm
RE: Problem dealing with death as an atheist - by Zenith - April 19, 2011 at 6:55 am
RE: Problem dealing with death as an atheist - by Zenith - April 17, 2011 at 6:02 pm
RE: Problem dealing with death as an atheist - by Carnavon - April 19, 2011 at 10:09 am
RE: Problem dealing with death as an atheist - by Zenith - April 25, 2011 at 5:17 pm
RE: Problem dealing with death as an atheist - by Skipper - April 11, 2011 at 4:43 pm
RE: Problem dealing with death as an atheist - by Zenith - April 11, 2011 at 5:20 pm
RE: Problem dealing with death as an atheist - by Zenith - April 11, 2011 at 6:08 pm
RE: Problem dealing with death as an atheist - by Thor - April 14, 2011 at 12:52 pm
RE: Problem dealing with death as an atheist - by bozo - April 14, 2011 at 3:12 pm
RE: Problem dealing with death as an atheist - by Zenith - April 11, 2011 at 5:35 pm
RE: Problem dealing with death as an atheist - by Cinjin - April 11, 2011 at 4:01 pm
RE: Problem dealing with death as an atheist - by Zenith - April 12, 2011 at 1:41 pm
RE: Problem dealing with death as an atheist - by Zenith - April 17, 2011 at 5:01 pm
RE: Problem dealing with death as an atheist - by bozo - April 13, 2011 at 5:09 pm
RE: Problem dealing with death as an atheist - by Frosty - April 14, 2011 at 9:52 am
RE: Problem dealing with death as an atheist - by JohnDG - April 17, 2011 at 6:15 pm
RE: Problem dealing with death as an atheist - by Cinjin - April 20, 2011 at 1:52 am
RE: Problem dealing with death as an atheist - by Zenith - April 25, 2011 at 6:47 pm
RE: Problem dealing with death as an atheist - by ilikeMe - April 21, 2011 at 1:16 pm
RE: Problem dealing with death as an atheist - by BethK - June 10, 2011 at 10:51 pm
RE: Problem dealing with death as an atheist - by bozo - May 12, 2011 at 7:46 pm
RE: Problem dealing with death as an atheist - by BethK - June 10, 2011 at 11:58 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  A problem with the word "atheist" Alexmahone 144 29875 February 8, 2018 at 9:40 pm
Last Post: Cyberman
  Responsibility transfer for atheists - dealing with uncertainty Catma 14 4812 November 28, 2016 at 8:43 pm
Last Post: Catma
  Atheist and the Death penalty strawdawg 125 37382 September 8, 2015 at 11:00 am
Last Post: TheRocketSurgeon
  Dealing with Death as an Atheist AlternativeArtStyles 82 17347 May 11, 2015 at 3:44 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
Sad Dealing with overly emotional christian parents? interstice 17 4772 September 22, 2014 at 5:59 pm
Last Post: Minimalist
  Dealing with Religious Family Members Geekyalbatross 10 3945 September 21, 2014 at 2:46 pm
Last Post: Dragonetti
  Dealing with Religious Friends Holden Caulfield 9 3204 July 12, 2014 at 9:02 am
Last Post: vorlon13
Question advice in dealing with fundamentalist inlaws praying at meals? matthewcornell 35 8373 June 9, 2014 at 9:10 am
Last Post: vorlon13
  Dealing with loss sven 22 6720 April 22, 2014 at 3:31 am
Last Post: LivingNumbers6.626
  Books on dealing with suffering rybak303 14 8944 April 20, 2014 at 5:54 am
Last Post: Fidel_Castronaut



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)