RE: Dr. Craig is a liar.
May 16, 2016 at 12:06 pm
(This post was last modified: May 16, 2016 at 12:44 pm by Mister Agenda.)
SteveII Wrote:Mister Agenda Wrote:Infinite regression of past causes seems absurd to humans. If it were logically absurd, by definition, there would be an iron-clad proof of its logical absurdity.
Solving the seeming paradox of 'everything has to have a cause, but it's absurd for causes to regress infinitely' with 'except this one thing that doesn't have to have a cause' first of all just claims that the first statement is false and NOT everything has to have a cause. Given that, a causeless universe is instantly put on the table.
It seems absurd because it is. Hilbert's Hotel does a good job at illustrating that an infinite number of things cannot exist (an actual infinite). Causes are things. To deny the logic is a pretty high intellectual price to pay to preserve your objections. I have yet to see any response why it isn't other than "...well, it seems that way but we really can't know so...you prove it".
A very big difference between what you propose, that there is an infinite causal chain, and what I propose, that there existed a God before the universe is that one is logically absurd and one is not.
I know you were presented with a link to a critique of Hilbert's Hotel. I can only assume you didn't follow it, one way or another.
You'll have to walk me through on where you got the idea that I don't think 'causes are things'.
That's how it goes with claims. You have to support them. The main problem with your claims so far is lack of any good reasons to think they're actually true. You trying to make that our problem is shifting the burden of proof. They call it a burden for a reason.
Claiming that a timeless, spaceless, changeless being who makes decisions and changes is not absurd is a claim you haven't supported very well yet.
Basically, you're proposing a God with ad hoc qualities to get around the fact that its supposed actions have no detectable effect on and leave no detectable trace on the universe. This is a God whose definition has been revised so much in the face of advancing science that part of its description literally includes being nothing.
God wasn't always considered to be timeless, spaceless, and outside the universe; that's modern physics and cosmology backing the idea of God into an ever smaller corner.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.