RE: Heaven seems awful 2 me-"Theist laughs at loudly & with great cruelty"
May 17, 2016 at 10:25 am
(May 16, 2016 at 8:53 pm)ChadWooters Wrote:(May 16, 2016 at 5:37 pm)Godschild Wrote: I agree with all you're saying, except for one thing, I personally can't see how someone who is a Christian could traffick children, one coming to the truth out of such a life must realize that they can't treat other humans that way especially children.
I was just presenting a theoretical case, but not without precedent. After his conversion, John Newton didn't walk away from the slave trade immediately but rather initially only resolved to treat the slaves humanely. His growth into a great abolitionist took some time. While repentance happens the instant we turn our eyes to the Lord and He grants us our salvation without hesitation, the regeneration of hearts and the renewing of minds both take time.
I appreciate you taking the time to answer him, Chad, as I found the arguments so infuriating and simplistic that I decided to bow out on answering the inane questions he put to me.
However, I should point out that you're both giving too little credence to the concept of "True Christian", with the whole "changed hearts" thing. While I understand that the changed heart is the point of Christian doctrine, you must understand that a HUGE percentage of the roughly 3/4ths of the USA who are Christians are "pew-warmers", meaning that they were raised in the tradition, believe in God and that Jesus is the Son of God, and go to church on occasion (sometimes, just on Christmas and Easter), but don't do much to practice their faith in an outgoing way throughout most of their daily lives.
Think of all the mafia movie scenes where these professional assassins sit together and pray over their meals, do the sign of the cross, and then start to discuss who needs to die next, over the meal. Given the overwhelming numbers of people in this country who are Christian, I'd wager the number of lapsed/backslid Christians who commit such crimes is significantly higher than that of nonbelievers.
So not only are you insulting us with the whole "Well TRUE Christians™ can't do this, so it must be the atheists" type of thinking, you're disobeying Jesus by focusing on the mote in our eye while ignoring the plank in your own. When you complicate it by saying "they [atheists] have no moral basis for not doing this", you're moving from blindness to bigotry.
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
