RE: Dr. Craig is a liar.
May 18, 2016 at 4:20 pm
(This post was last modified: May 18, 2016 at 4:21 pm by Huggy Bear.)
(May 18, 2016 at 3:48 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: *Pats Huggy on the head* That's nice dear.
You've dodged this each time I've mentioned it, but I'd like you to at least address it a little bit.
The STEP studies that tested the efficacy of prayer included groups of people that prayed for sick people to get better. In most cases these prayers were shown to have NO effect, and in some cases those prayers had NEGATIVE effects. How would you explain that? Were these people just not using 'faith' in those prayers?
Why do you guys always fail to link your sources?
From ABC news
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=132674&page=1
Quote:In the meantime, other scientists are taking a look at the 191 studies that have already been done on what they call "remote healing."
One such study was conducted at the Mid America Heart Institute in Kansas City, Mo. At first, Dr. William Harris had a hard time persuading a fellow cardiologist, Dr. James O'Keefe, to participate in the prayer experiment on heart patients.
"From a purely scientific standpoint, I thought it was illogical," says O'Keefe. "I don't really think of spirituality normally as playing a role in scientific, rigorous, double-blind placebo-controlled scientific studies. It's two different realms."
A previous study by some other scientists had gotten positive results, and Harris wanted to study remote healing for himself. But he, too, was skeptical.
"We were even doubtful that the phenomena itself was real," he says, "that prayer could do anything."
So Harris wanted to make his experiment impervious to any placebo effects. He did not tell patients they were being prayed for — or even that they were part of any kind of experiment. For an entire year, about 1,000 heart patients admitted to the institute's critical care unit were secretly divided into two groups. Half were prayed for by a group of volunteers and the hospital's chaplain; the other half were not.
All the patients were followed for a year, and then their health was scored according to pre-set rules by a third party who did not know which patients had been prayed for and which had not. The results: The patients who were prayed for had 11 percent fewer heart attacks, strokes and life-threatening complications.
"This study offers an interesting insight into the possibility that maybe God is influencing our lives on Earth," says O'Keefe. "As a scientist, it's very counterintuitive because I don't have a way to explain it."
A Miracle or Simply Chance?
Quote:Dr. Elizabeth Targ, a psychiatrist at the Pacific College of Medicine in San Francisco, has also tested out prayer on critically ill AIDS patients.*emphasis mine*
All 20 patients in the study got pretty much the same medical treatment, but only half of them were prayed for by spiritual healers. Ultimately, 10 of the prayed-for patients lived, while four who had not been prayed for died.
In a larger follow-up study, Targ found that the people who received prayer and remote healing had six times fewer hospitilizations and those hospitalizations were significantly shorter than the people who received no prayer and distant healing.
"I was sort of shocked," says Targ. "In a way it's like witnessing a miracle. There was no way to understand this from my experience and from my basic understanding of science."