RE: Problem dealing with death as an atheist
April 17, 2011 at 8:36 pm
(This post was last modified: April 17, 2011 at 8:59 pm by Zenith.)
(April 12, 2011 at 2:11 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote: An honest and EDUCATED man would look at all of the evidence science has gathered and come to the conclusion that Gods, souls, and religion are not needed...and are more than likely fictional.I believe you're wrong here: science is not needed for many as well. I mean, a lot of people can live happily even though they may believe that the earth is flat, that having sex with a goat may bring good fortune, etc. There are also a lot of idiots full of money, and many wise men that can barely sustain their life with the money they earn. Whom does knowledge/wisdom/science favor here? It seems that knowledge/wisdom/science is not a NEED for the former (though it may be useful).
as about the greek religion: I'm curios, how did you get to study about it? I was never fascinated by it to start studying it seriously.
Quote:They had many different kinds of afterlives, and some even believed in reincarnation on top of it. For the most part normal mortals went to Hades. Hades was not "satan" back then. He was the judge of the mortals.I guess Hades was presented in a myth as trying to rule over all living world (a conspiracy to dethrone Zeus), wasn't he?
Quote:Those who did specific things or kindnesses and such were allowed to enter Elysium. Those who did not stayed in the realm of Hades, or were eaten by Cerebus, or Orcus, or Thanatos (depending on what Helenic sect you were).I guess they did not have a problem with sleeping with animals or incest. As far as I know, greek gods were practicing incest, right? :))
I know that homosexuality was not seen as something 'normal' everywhere though.
Quote:If you were a member of the Orphic mysteries, or one of the many mystery cults they had back then (eventually Christianity sprouted as a greek/hebrew inspired mystery cult) you would become "one" or live forever in the after life with your god (who was usually killed, born again, raised from the dead..the mystery cults get pretty deep).
Can you tell me more about it? or give me a link with more details about it? I know that there were more influences in europe in the ancient world (centuries 1, 2, etc.). One of them was gnosticism, which attached both to christianity and judaism. I know that there was some theory, if I remember well, that came from the eastern religions, perhaps from hinduism, that taught to abstain yourself from sex all your life, as some religious purity or something. I guess that from there came the theory that the "Virgin Mary" must have remained virgin all her life - and this was most surely contrary to the Jewish life of the 1st century.
Also I'm interested when that theory began. If I remember well, the greek 'religion' survived until about the 7th religion AD, and religions and religious philosophies tend to influence each other in time. But I guess it's hard to find out when exactly a myth began.
Quote:Quite frankly the popular religions of today are dwarfed by the entire Helenistic pantheon, and I dont even know all of it, after years of study.It is obvious that the greek culture influenced Christianity. Philosophies in the first place (e.g. Aristotle). Then, when Christianity was made an official religion by Emperor Constantine, he made it the same as the pagan 'religion' was: a priest was assigned for every 'church', as a pagan priest was assigned for every temple, christian priests weren't required to pay taxes, they were payed by the empire (as the pagan priests were), and the christian priests took the same role in the church as the pagan priests took in the temple.
Quote:Popular ones of THOSE days I can pull from my memory:
Bachus/ Dionysos
Apollonius of Tyana (mortal worshipped as the son of god)
Demeter/Persephone/Hades
Pythagoras (mortal who was worshipped as the son of god)
You know, the interesting thing is that the Jews also had a concept "son of God", even before being forcibly hellenized (it seems there were some wars and a Seleucid Emperor put a statue of Zeus in the Temple of Jerusalem and sacrificed a pig on the alter to him, and the Jews didn't like that, so they were being killed and stuff).
Anyway, the meanings I know in the Jewish Bible about "Son of God" is:
1. In the Bible God referred to the people of Israel as His "son".
2. It seems that angelic beings (angel = whatever else is in heaven that serves God) were called "sons of God". About the King David and also about King Solomon - he was a son of David and became king after him, it is written that God chose him (first, David, then, Solomon) as His "son", as His "firstborn" (here, firstborn is rather a right, rather than a literal meaning - a man could become "firstborn") . And the Messiah, son (i.e. descendant) of David was also going to be called "son of God" and "firstborn" of God.
3. It seems that "son of God" meant something like relationship, rather than a physical/biological result (i.e. sexual intercourse in which a "god" sleeps with a goddess or a woman and the offspring is, willingly or unwillingly belonging to the god).
Anyway, it makes perfect sense what Pontius Pilate understood when the Jews told him that Jesus called himself "son of God" (which sounded to him, the son of their god). The emperor/king was also considered in greek and egyptian 'religions' as "son of a god", so this combined with Jesus being called "king of the Jews", it made perfect sense to him :)).
(April 17, 2011 at 6:15 pm)JohnDG Wrote: We all fear death conciously or unconciously, one day you will die. But for now make the most of your life, do something great in your life that makes it okay to die. Live to the fullest without messing up the rest of your life. Or just read my quote... lol
I guess the only possible way not to fear death, if you don't believe in an afterlife, is to desire it :))
Think about if: if you're living a crappy life, and can't enjoy anything or almost anything of it, and your life is like hell, and can't do anything to change it, then you'll see the "end" as a 'happy ending' :))