Making the case for Islam.

[paulpablo]

At the end of the day, we cannot even value an act without belief in that there is some value to the person we are praising for that action and state of being.   But as discussed before in other threads, we cannot decide what a value of ourselves or others are. It's like looking at the moon, I can estimate it's size, but at the end, that doesn't make it's size. I can not estimate it's size but believe it's something, but that won't define it either. Yet when it comes to value of the humans, it's not such that it simply exists in space or 3d, it's a something that is experienced with perception.

We require an objective perception to who we are to have objective value. But we aren't that impartial judge nor have that perception. At the same time, if we make it the case that we don't have value, we simply believe we do, or we make one according to our standards, then it's really a delusion. It has no basis, we believe there is an objective value to people even if we don't know there is.

My problem with discussions is people usually don't look at the whole argument or the central argument, but look at the phrases leading up to it, and respond to that. 
I think I have a lot patience in that I repeat the same things over and over again, in different ways, but people still don't address the crux of the argument.
 
Ok you believe morals is what humans think and have nothing to do with God because you have no evidence for God. What does this have to do with the argument I showed?

You said atheists want to say that morals are what people think.

I said I think many atheists have actually reasoned this to be true rather than they just want to say it's true.

You then said that you think it's unreasonable to not believe in objective morals.

I then said that regardless of the morals being objective or not I have reasoned that morals come from what people think, or empathy.  Because I have no evidence of god, ghosts, spirits or aliens giving us information about morals, only other humans.

And that's where we were up to.

I haven't argued against any main argument yet because I haven't seen one.

I'm just making an objection to how you worded the phrase "Atheists want to say....." I just found it dishonest, generalizing and suggestive that atheists don't make reasonable statements, these statements are made because they want to say them.