(June 6, 2016 at 9:09 am)Brian37 Wrote: Atlas I cannot repeat this enough, while I think it is great that you are not so insecure as to fear having your claims picked on, you also are missing very glaring problems with your own logic too.
I find it absurd, when any religion does this, not just yours.
Why cant you see the problem with claiming your claimed god, by your logic, you claim loves you and humanity, but chooses to allow all the violence and drama even between fellow Muslims? I am sorry Atlas, but the Quran is still the same book Mystic is using that you are using to come to very different conclusions.
If I had two kids who were fighting over their toys to the point where they were harming each other, I would take the toys away.
Imagine for a second, you were an employee at a bicycle factory, now imagine if that factory boss gave you an assembly manual the workers could not agree on. Imagine if those workers started murdering each other over the interpretations of how to assemble the bikes? Would you find that boss moral, or insane?
I find it absurd to claim that any god someone wants to claim, would value needless drama and violence while at the same time claiming this alleged god has the power to make it clear.
Atlas, the truth is that those books were written by humans who didn't have any modern understanding of reality like we do now. The Quran and Jewish OT and Bible were all written in an age of tribal kingdoms and all of them competed with each other over which tribe was the correct tribe, even within the same religions fighting over the very same books. Not just other religions.
There were not written religions 200,000 years ago, much less 4 billion years ago, much less 13.8 billion years ago. I find it absurd to even claim that humans, much less any one religion, are the center of the planet, much less the universe. It makes much more sense to me that humans believe in these things because they don't like the idea of being finite.
God doesn't love humanity in Islam. The relationship is represented as a "slave/master" kind of thing, where God is mostly feared above all.
Mystic doesn't just believe in the Quran, he believes in other books that compose his "Shia faith". He's a "Shia". He's a twelver Shiite, while faith evolves around the Quran in my religion, Mystic's faith evolves around 12 Imams that he sees as "guided ones", and tries to convince humanity to follow them.
God doesn't love us. If he does, then why does he torture us?
I find this verse in the Quran, very interesting :
Sura 5
( 18 ) But the Jews and the Christians say, "We are the children of Allah and His beloved." Say, "Then why does He punish you for your sins?" Rather, you are human beings from among those He has created. He forgives whom He wills, and He punishes whom He wills. And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them, and to Him is the [final] destination.
Judaism and Christianity present the concept of "divine love" and chosen people (so does Mystic's Shiite faith); my faith -which is based on the Quran only- tells another story. Mystic believes in other books aside from the Quran; Brian.
I wouldn't blame the manual, if the employees decided to use manuals produced by other factories, despite the clear warning telling them not to.
Here, you can see the difference between my religion & Mystic's: I believe in the original manual only, he believes in thousand other manuals, that compose his Shiite faith.
As for being the center of events, we aren't. We are mere "successors" on earth. It's stated very clearly in the Quran, that there are "other things" out there.
Sura 16
( 49 ) And to Allah prostrates whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth of creatures, and the angels [as well], and they are not arrogant.
The universe is a very big place:
Sura 40
( 57 ) The creation of the heavens and earth is greater than the creation of mankind, but most of the people do not know.
MrNoMorePropaganda
Difference in opinions about the Quran is actually one of its essence:
Sura 3
( 7 ) It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah. But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.
You can guess the role the Hadith plays in this. So now, using this verse, we can refute Sunni/Shia claims about the "unclear" verses.
But for example, a clear verse is the verse that says God is one. Why don't the "Umma" stick to such verse instead of fighting over an unclear verse?
