RE: Well times up Hillary
June 11, 2016 at 10:09 pm
(This post was last modified: June 11, 2016 at 10:10 pm by TheRealJoeFish.)
Dyre, I really think you're coming from a good place but I think this is naive.
Nationally, in all of the primaries, Hillary has received approximately 13.5 million votes, and Bernie has gotten 10.5 million (don't know if that was before or after the California primary). To say that "Clinton and the DNC have stolen the primary from Sanders," you would need to allege massive voting fraud coordinated from the top down to the level of practically every local polling place to the tune of 1.5 million votes being switched from Bernie to Hillary. Such fraud would be ubiquitous across the country, and you'd have to believe that it was hidden from either every single reporter everywhere (each of whom would cut off a limb to get the kind of story that would make their career and let them retire to a mansion somewhere) or that *every single person who knows about this* is 1) in the DNC's pocket for more than it would be worth to break the story or 2) so utterly incompetent as to be unable to provide proof of fraud affecting at least 1 out of every 16 votes in the country.
As I said: naive.
There are factions who badly want this to be criminal. There is an "ongoing investigation," and we'll see what comes of it. To me, it seems like she was a dumb stupid idiot to not make sure everything was aboveboard if she was considering another presidential run, but it also doesn't seem worse, from the facts we know, than what the two Secretaries of State before her did. If she is charged with a crime, so be it: she'll have a chance to defend herself.
I just don't think this is true. Every national poll (the predictive kind I mentioned, not the internet kind) has Hillary winning by 2 to 5 percentage points. There are far more reasons to think that number will go up after the DNC than down. The demographics simply aren't there for Donald at present. They may get there, but it's quite unlikely.
And, listen: I voted for Bernie in the primary. But the fact that he lost - fair and square, I might add - means that I've now got to choose between a woman who, despite her many faults, will work to preserve most of the gains we've made over the last 8 years (and push for some new ones, even if they're not as dramatic as we'd like) and a man who will literally make America the laughingstock of the world, as well as less safe, less free, less great.
Easy decision.
(June 11, 2016 at 9:42 pm)dyresand Wrote: Its not even over the Super Delegates haven't even voted yet.Yeah, but hundreds of them are publicly on record as saying they *will* vote for Clinton. The superdelegates are, by definition, establishment democrats. To reneg on their initial commitment would be political suicide, and they would have to do so in great numbers, numbers that would be statistically impossible barring a ridiculous coordinated effort (which is somehow being kept a secret from the media).
Quote:Then there is the election fraud case going on becauseThe only source for the statement that "all of the polls are showing Bernie winning but Clinton is inexplicably getting more votes" is... whoever made that statement up. In the kinds of polls that people who sign change.org petitions demanding recounts of every state's democratic primary elections (that is, internet polls where participation is voluntary and encouraged and such), sure Bernie's winning. That's because Bernie Sanders has a lot more supporters who spend a ton of time on the internet and on forums and reddit and such. In the kinds of polls that actually try to predict results (that is, phone and live polls controlled for demographic factors), they've predicted the correct result - be it a Bernie win or a Hillary win - almost every time (Michigan being the notable exception).
of the exit polling.
Nationally, in all of the primaries, Hillary has received approximately 13.5 million votes, and Bernie has gotten 10.5 million (don't know if that was before or after the California primary). To say that "Clinton and the DNC have stolen the primary from Sanders," you would need to allege massive voting fraud coordinated from the top down to the level of practically every local polling place to the tune of 1.5 million votes being switched from Bernie to Hillary. Such fraud would be ubiquitous across the country, and you'd have to believe that it was hidden from either every single reporter everywhere (each of whom would cut off a limb to get the kind of story that would make their career and let them retire to a mansion somewhere) or that *every single person who knows about this* is 1) in the DNC's pocket for more than it would be worth to break the story or 2) so utterly incompetent as to be unable to provide proof of fraud affecting at least 1 out of every 16 votes in the country.
As I said: naive.
Quote:Then the FBI and the White house now calling it a criminal investigation.
There are factions who badly want this to be criminal. There is an "ongoing investigation," and we'll see what comes of it. To me, it seems like she was a dumb stupid idiot to not make sure everything was aboveboard if she was considering another presidential run, but it also doesn't seem worse, from the facts we know, than what the two Secretaries of State before her did. If she is charged with a crime, so be it: she'll have a chance to defend herself.
Quote:Yeah..... i wouldn't call it a hillary vs trump
because let's be honest... if it turns out if its trump vs hillary trump is going to win
I just don't think this is true. Every national poll (the predictive kind I mentioned, not the internet kind) has Hillary winning by 2 to 5 percentage points. There are far more reasons to think that number will go up after the DNC than down. The demographics simply aren't there for Donald at present. They may get there, but it's quite unlikely.
And, listen: I voted for Bernie in the primary. But the fact that he lost - fair and square, I might add - means that I've now got to choose between a woman who, despite her many faults, will work to preserve most of the gains we've made over the last 8 years (and push for some new ones, even if they're not as dramatic as we'd like) and a man who will literally make America the laughingstock of the world, as well as less safe, less free, less great.
Easy decision.
How will we know, when the morning comes, we are still human? - 2D
Don't worry, my friend. If this be the end, then so shall it be.
Don't worry, my friend. If this be the end, then so shall it be.
