20 dead in Orlando gay club shooting

[Thumpalumpacus]

Can you explain why America is at #50 for suicide, then, behind countries which have drastically restricted (to the point of outlawing) the private ownership of guns, such as Japan or South Korea? By your logic, we ought to be topping that list.

Not really. I never said that it was a simple correlation. Suicide rates are influenced by all sorts of factors - social, economic, cultural - which does not mean, that ready availability of easy to use killing tools has no part.  How large a part - that's debatable, sure, but some might argue, that whatever the potential decrease in suicides may be - it's at least worth considering.

The portion of Huggy's post you quoted and disputed reads, "Guns aren't a determining factor in whether or not someone commits suicide." I read that to mean "the presence of a gun doesn't enter into the decision to commit suicide" -- and I don't think it does. It makes success more likely, as you rightly point out, but that's a different kettle of fish.

I think you're underestimating the power of impulse. Many people, who survived a suicide attempt never tried it again. And considering that guns are the most reliable suicide method (along cyanide, but who keeps cyanide around the house?) - having them as an option certainly influences the number of survivors.

Having been suicidal twice in my life, I don't think I'm underestimating the power of impulse at all. It wasn't the presence or absence (absence, in my two cases) that made the difference. A person who is intent on suicide will do it with the means at hand.

Using a gun makes the attempt more likely to succeed, but you haven't shown it makes it more likely to occur.