RE: Leaving christianity, a bit of my story
July 11, 2016 at 1:28 pm
(This post was last modified: July 11, 2016 at 1:31 pm by Lucifer.)
(July 11, 2016 at 1:19 pm)KevinM1 Wrote:(July 11, 2016 at 1:10 pm)robvalue Wrote: They tend to do more harm to their cause than good, by revealing the manipulative and desperate side of religion.
Yup. And, the more they "No True Scotsman," the more harm they do to their cause.
Very true. This is why I was hesitant to answer the question "why do you think you were a christian?". He accused me of playing games, but all I wanted is to avoid the games that the christians play so often, that is: 1) ask that question, 2) accuse me of not being a christian because I did not mention something. If they could just give me the requirements of what being a christian would be to them, then I could answer whether I fit their definition of a christian. This of course could be yes or no, depending on their specific definition. I mean, I did not speak in tongues, which for some christians is an essential ingredient for a christian, while christians from another denomination would say that speaking in tongues is not possible and it means you are deluded as a christian. But I have noticed that most christians who ask that question will always say that you are not a christian.
If someone does not believe your first premise, no matter what you throw at them, it shows a lack of intellectual honesty and trust, which makes it impossible to have a good conversation.
But I notice that some christians understand this fallacy and do not commit it, which is very respectable and allows the conversation with them to continue.
(July 11, 2016 at 1:21 pm)SteveII Wrote:(July 11, 2016 at 12:55 pm)Lucifer Wrote: Thanks for your reply. I could reply again to all of those points, but I first want to make clear that it is not me who needs to defend why I don't believe, but it's you as a believer who needs to come up with proof to support your claim. I will not ask you to show proof for why you don't believe in the God(s) of Islam, Hinduism, etc. It is up to the people from those religions to make a good case for their own claims. I apply this for everyone. If someone were to claim to know that there is no God, that is an incredible claim as well that would require evidence (and yes this one is impossible to proof).
I don't claim to know that God does not exist. My answer is "I don't know, but in order to know if he does exist I need evidence". I will continue to live my life without worrying about God(s) until someone makes a good case, because I have not seen any interesting evidence.
We are talking about your beliefs and your claim that "rationality won out". So you are making the claim that there is no evidence for God, not the much weaker position "I don't know". I am still curious how someone who was a Christian came to the conclusion that the NT was not evidence for God. I promise, I will not turn it into a 10 page debate on the NT.
Yes, but my point is that I don't see any evidence for christianity, which makes it irrational. That is simply my point, and answering it could be as simple as presenting some evidence to me.
You mention the New Testament. What specifically in those books would you present as evidence?