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The ridiculous story of the temptation of Jesus
February 8, 2021 at 7:13 pm
It's ridiculous on several levels, but it isn't even internally coherent.
In Matthew 4:1-11, when Jesus was in the wilderness for 40 days, the following occurs: "Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me".
So, if Satan knows that Jesus is the god of the universe, he would also know that Jesus already owns "the kingdoms of the world". Jesus would obviously also know that "the kingdoms of the world" are already his. So, what exactly is the ammunition being used in the temptation?
If I walked into your house, and pointed to your tv on the wall, and said, I will give you that tv if you bow down to me, anyone in their right mind, would laugh at me, and kick me out of their house.
How could Jesus be tempted with the promise of getting the stuff he already owns? And everyone in the story already knows he owns it.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: The ridiculous story of the temptation of Jesus
February 8, 2021 at 7:40 pm
I guess Jesus lucked out that Satan wasn't a Vogon....
![[Image: 408.jpg?textgram148987097324]](https://ap-pics2.gotpoem.com/ap-pics/item/13194/408.jpg?textgram148987097324)
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RE: The ridiculous story of the temptation of Jesus
February 8, 2021 at 7:43 pm
Check out hypostatic union over on wiki
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypostatic_union
“ ...God, understood as a perfectly good, perfectly wise, perfectly powerful being, fully became a human, in the Christian understanding of the term: burdened by sin, limited in goodness, knowledge, and understanding.”
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
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RE: The ridiculous story of the temptation of Jesus
February 8, 2021 at 7:43 pm
The temptation is part of an archetypal story. The hero or demigod must undergo trials before having his worthiness proven.
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RE: The ridiculous story of the temptation of Jesus
February 8, 2021 at 8:06 pm
All I hear is......Wasted Days and Wasted Nights............
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem.
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RE: The ridiculous story of the temptation of Jesus
February 9, 2021 at 2:39 am
(This post was last modified: February 9, 2021 at 2:45 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(February 8, 2021 at 7:13 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: It's ridiculous on several levels, but it isn't even internally coherent.
In Matthew 4:1-11, when Jesus was in the wilderness for 40 days, the following occurs: "Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me".
So, if Satan knows that Jesus is the god of the universe, he would also know that Jesus already owns "the kingdoms of the world". Jesus would obviously also know that "the kingdoms of the world" are already his. So, what exactly is the ammunition being used in the temptation?
If I walked into your house, and pointed to your tv on the wall, and said, I will give you that tv if you bow down to me, anyone in their right mind, would laugh at me, and kick me out of their house.
How could Jesus be tempted with the promise of getting the stuff he already owns? And everyone in the story already knows he owns it.
The people who wrote that one didn't have the same view of jesus as a god that later christians have granted you with. In context to their beliefs, the temptation was very precisely one of usurping god. Of claiming his kingdoms and refusing his plan. The universe loves irony.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: The ridiculous story of the temptation of Jesus
February 9, 2021 at 5:00 am
How high is this mountain that he could see "all the kingdoms of the world"? Maybe able to see a few tens of miles at the most!
The meek shall inherit the Earth, the rest of us will fly to the stars.
Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups
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RE: The ridiculous story of the temptation of Jesus
February 9, 2021 at 9:10 am
Going to the wilderness and living off the land was a right of passage for ascetic Jews of the time. Josephus wrote about his own experience. Josephus also wrote of:
These were such men as deceived and deluded the people under pretense of Divine inspiration, but were for procuring innovations and changes of the government; and these prevailed with the multitude to act like madmen, and went before them into the wilderness, as pretending that God would there show them the signals of liberty.
But there was an Egyptian false prophet that did the Jews more mischief than the former; for he was a cheat, and pretended to be a prophet also, and got together thirty thousand men that were deluded by him; these he led round about from the wilderness to the mount which was called the Mount of Olives, and was ready to break into Jerusalem by force from that place; and if he could but once conquer the Roman garrison and the people, he intended to domineer over them by the assistance of those guards of his that were to break into the city with him.
Wars of the Jews 2.259-262
This bit of history provides a backdrop to the early Christian adaptation.
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RE: The ridiculous story of the temptation of Jesus
February 9, 2021 at 9:33 am
Of course, I'm familiar with that story from the time I was a Catholic student in early grade school. But as good Catholics, my classmates and I were not supposed to consider that the story made no sense. We were simply required to shut up and believe it. 
"The world is my country; all of humanity are my brethren; and to do good deeds is my religion." (Thomas Paine)
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RE: The ridiculous story of the temptation of Jesus
February 23, 2021 at 11:32 am
(This post was last modified: February 23, 2021 at 11:43 am by Redstar.)
(February 8, 2021 at 7:13 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: It's ridiculous on several levels, but it isn't even internally coherent.
In Matthew 4:1-11, when Jesus was in the wilderness for 40 days, the following occurs: "Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me".
So, if Satan knows that Jesus is the god of the universe, he would also know that Jesus already owns "the kingdoms of the world". Jesus would obviously also know that "the kingdoms of the world" are already his. So, what exactly is the ammunition being used in the temptation?
If I walked into your house, and pointed to your tv on the wall, and said, I will give you that tv if you bow down to me, anyone in their right mind, would laugh at me, and kick me out of their house.
How could Jesus be tempted with the promise of getting the stuff he already owns? And everyone in the story already knows he owns it.
Jesus Christ is both God and man. He has both a divine nature and a human nature.
Yes, Satan is aware of His divine nature* - hence the efforts to subjugate Him. However, with his efforts to tempt, he is appealing to Christ's human nature because from experience he also knows human nature is fragile (i.e prone to greed, lust, anger, selfishness, deceit etc).
(*or he at least suspects this, which we can tell from what he says)
I understand what you mean about God "owning" the kingdoms of the world, however, but Jesus Christ 'the man' did not own them in any meaningful or beneficial way. To the world, He was a carpenter's son from Nazareth, not a man of means. Yet, these things could have made Him rich and powerful - at least for a while. Hence Satan's angle for tempting.
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