RE: The real religion?
August 11, 2016 at 3:11 pm
(This post was last modified: August 11, 2016 at 9:22 pm by robvalue.)
(August 11, 2016 at 9:27 am)SteveII Wrote:(August 10, 2016 at 6:25 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: Billions of people have CLAIMED to have entered a relationship with 'God', many gods actually.
If 1.5 billion Muslims clam to have a personal relationship with their god, is that 'empirical evidence' that Allah exists?
You are guilty of the fallacy of special pleading. Not too impressive.
I doubt whether you know what the term 'empirical evidence' means.
Do you believe that every Christian that claims to have entered a 'personal relationship with God' has actually done so, or is there some percentage of Christians that are delusional, or fooling themselves, or misinterpreting some other feeling as a 'personal relationship with God'?
1. Sure. But the doctrine of salvation in Christianity is unique. No other religion describes a personal relationship with God.
ALL religions have unique aspects. Christianity's unique aspects make it different than other religions, just as the other religions unique aspects make them different that Christianity.
That tells us nothing about the truth of one over another, or the truth of any of them.
Quote:2. Muslims do not attempt to have a relationship with God. They specifically believe that is not possible.
Book 97, Hadith 34 seems to be describing some sort of relationship. Maybe not the same as the one Christians claim.
Quote:3. Since there are no comparable religions to Christianity (specifically the doctrine of salvation), there is no special pleading.
Your claimed uniqueness of Christianity does not excuse your special pleading.
Quote:4. Empirical: based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic.
The word "verifiable" in the above definition negates your use of the word.
If a Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Jew, Sikh, etc all do an experiment to measure the speed of light, they will all get the same results. That is empirical.
When a Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Jew, Sikh, etc all claim that their experiences are evidence for their gods, and there is no way to verify them, as in the measurement of the speed of light, that is not empirical.
Quote:5. No. I don't believe everyone who claims to be a Christian has experienced the event of 'salvation' and the effect of regeneration as described in the NT. Does that really change anything?
Yes, it changes things.
How are you able to tell the difference between a real 'personal experience' and a delusional or mistaken one? I'm sure there are plenty of Christians that absolutely believe, with extreme sincerity, their 'personal experience' is real, yet they are mistaken or delusional.
It is entirely possible, that a Christian that claims to have had 'personal experience', but did not, has not only fooled themselves, but has fooled you too.
And here I am, sitting outside your Christian (Muslim, Hindu, Sikh, etc) belief bubble, and they ALL look like they are mistaken or delusional to me. How am I supposed to tell the difference?
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Quote tags fixed by robvalue.
Quote tags fixed by robvalue.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.