(August 11, 2016 at 3:11 pm)Simon Moon Wrote:(August 11, 2016 at 9:27 am)SteveII Wrote: 1. Sure. But the doctrine of salvation in Christianity is unique. No other religion describes a personal relationship with God.
ALL religions have unique aspects. Christianity's unique aspects make it different than other religions, just as the other religions unique aspects make them different that Christianity.
That tells us nothing about the truth of one over another, or the truth of any of them.
Quote:2. Muslims do not attempt to have a relationship with God. They specifically believe that is not possible.
Book 97, Hadith 34 seems to be describing some sort of relationship. Maybe not the same as the one Christians claim.
Quote:3. Since there are no comparable religions to Christianity (specifically the doctrine of salvation), there is no special pleading.
Your claimed uniqueness of Christianity does not excuse your special pleading.
Quote:4. Empirical: based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic.
The word "verifiable" in the above definition negates your use of the word.
If a Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Jew, Sikh, etc all do an experiment to measure the speed of light, they will all get the same results. That is empirical.
When a Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Jew, Sikh, etc all claim that their experiences are evidence for their gods, and there is no way to verify them, as in the measurement of the speed of light, that is not empirical.
Quote:5. No. I don't believe everyone who claims to be a Christian has experienced the event of 'salvation' and the effect of regeneration as described in the NT. Does that really change anything?
Yes, it changes things.
How are you able to tell the difference between a real 'personal experience' and a delusional or mistaken one? I'm sure there are plenty of Christians that absolutely believe, with extreme sincerity, their 'personal experience' is real, yet they are mistaken or delusional.
It is entirely possible, that a Christian that claims to have had 'personal experience', but did not, has not only fooled themselves, but has fooled you too.
And here I am, sitting outside your Christian (Muslim, Hindu, Sikh, etc) belief bubble, and they ALL look like they are mistaken or delusional to me. How am I supposed to tell the difference?
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Quote tags fixed by robvalue.
1. I agree. However, we are discussing a unique aspect of Christianity and the truth value of that particular belief. The fact that there are other religions does not at all impact that question.
2. Certainly nowhere near the Christian/God relationship. Galatians 5 talks a lot about that relationship (among other places).
3. In light of 2, you will have to clearly describe what you think is special pleading then.
4. You think empirical and verifiable only relates to the scientific method? That is not the definition of those words. Regarding expiriences, first you do not have more than one religion claiming a personal relationship with God so...no problem there. Second why isn't personal testimony (or a billion personal testimonies) of such an internal experience evidence? Sure, they could be lying, the could be delusional, but on what philosophical basis can you the determination that in any case it is definitively false?
5. See 4. How do you tell the difference between religions? Read their founding docs, examine the philosophical basis, and if a personal experience is involved, talk to someone that claims that experience...and then decide for yourself.