RE: Why can't Christians Verify Exactly Where Jesus Was Buried?
September 5, 2016 at 8:05 pm
(This post was last modified: September 5, 2016 at 8:06 pm by Aractus.)
(September 5, 2016 at 5:01 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I want to see numbers for this unsupported claim.
Easy. There are just two scholars who advocate for Jesus mythicism: Robert Price and Richard Carrier. I can name at least three historians that are holocaust deniers: David Irving, Arno Mayer, and Robert Faurisson. In fact the denial movement is much bigger and has the support of well over a dozen qualified historians, the mythicism movement doesn't have anywhere near the academic support. Mythicism and Denialism are just as crazy as each other.
(September 5, 2016 at 6:48 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Here's another discussion on this horseshit. I imagine this fellow is a "quack," too.... since that seems to be the extent of the jesus freaks' ability to defend their position.
As you well know I am not defending a Jesus-freak position. Most scholars don't bother talking about such a trivial matter that to them seems obvious. But I've shown you examples of where top scholars such as Larry Hurtado have done so, and have explained the lack of any academic evidence for the positions put forward by mythicists:
Larry Hurtado Wrote:A little over two weeks ago, I naively posted on reports of re-emergence of the early 20th-century claims (back then made by a few journalists and writers, none of them competent in the fields involved) that “Jesus” was an entirely mythical/legendary figure, and that no “Jesus of Nazareth” ever lived. Along with the view of pretty near all scholars in the field, I expressed surprise and a certain weariness that a claim rather effectively considered and refuted many decades ago was making the rounds again as if it were new and had any strong merit. Immediately, there were urgent comments from supporters of the so-called “mythicist” Jesus line, some of them in reasonable tones, many of them scurrilous, angry, haughty, disdainful, and most of these latter types I simply deleted.
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First, in the two weeks of comments/responses to my postings, I’ve seen nothing cited by way of new evidence or analysis of known evidence that comprises a new and sufficient basis to treat the latest re-assertion of the “mythicist” Jesus claim as any more credible than the earlier versions refuted decades ago. I’ve asked for such, but I don’t see any. Some have claimed that the current wave of popular-oriented books offer such, but in spite of repeated invitations to point out briefly and specifically the supposed evidence and new reasons, I don’t recall any forthcoming.
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So, for example, a few have challenged whether the early Jesus-movement was really a Jesus-movement after all, proposing that it may have been simply a (vaguely alleged) eschatological sect that later came to adopt a Jesus-figure (of imagination) as its iconic centre. Having devoted a good many years, and resulting pages, to the matter of how Jesus featured in earliest Christianity, with pretty much every other scholar who has considered the question, I have to say that doesn’t fly. For the fuller reasons and argument behind this view of things, you’ll have to read some books, among them my own: esp. Lord Jesus Christ: Devotion to Jesus in Earliest Christianity (2003), and How on Earth did Jesus Become a God? (2005). (I hasten to add that, unlike the works cited by “mythicist” advocates, these and the other books to which I have referred are the sort that have been widely reviewed by other scholars in various countries and from various perspectives, and have been subjected to the most detailed attention in scholarly conferences and symposia. They haven’t necessarily survived without criticism on some points, as you’d expect, but they’ve certainly been examined in detail, and were published precisely to invite such critical analysis.)
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Part of the problem may be an insufficient acquaintance with how historians work with the limited data available. ...
You well know he repeatedly says that there is no credible evidence for mythicism, and that his response to the allegations is quite detailed. If you want to advance your case you have to find a respected scholar - respected like Hurtado, not some quack like Richard Price or some random internet website you found made by a completely unqualified layperson - that says that there is good evidence for Mythicism. You haven't been able to produce this. Every respected scholar that has something to say about this says the same thing.
For Religion & Health see:[/b][/size] Williams & Sternthal. (2007). Spirituality, religion and health: Evidence and research directions. Med. J. Aust., 186(10), S47-S50. -LINK
The WIN/Gallup End of Year Survey 2013 found the US was perceived to be the greatest threat to world peace by a huge margin, with 24% of respondents fearful of the US followed by: 8% for Pakistan, and 6% for China. This was followed by 5% each for: Afghanistan, Iran, Israel, North Korea. -LINK
"That's disgusting. There were clean athletes out there that have had their whole careers ruined by people like Lance Armstrong who just bended thoughts to fit their circumstances. He didn't look up cheating because he wanted to stop, he wanted to justify what he was doing and to keep that continuing on." - Nicole Cooke
The WIN/Gallup End of Year Survey 2013 found the US was perceived to be the greatest threat to world peace by a huge margin, with 24% of respondents fearful of the US followed by: 8% for Pakistan, and 6% for China. This was followed by 5% each for: Afghanistan, Iran, Israel, North Korea. -LINK
"That's disgusting. There were clean athletes out there that have had their whole careers ruined by people like Lance Armstrong who just bended thoughts to fit their circumstances. He didn't look up cheating because he wanted to stop, he wanted to justify what he was doing and to keep that continuing on." - Nicole Cooke