Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: February 25, 2025, 11:24 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 2 Vote(s) - 3 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Why can't Christians Verify Exactly Where Jesus Was Buried?
#89
RE: Why can't Christians Verify Exactly Where Jesus Was Buried?
(September 10, 2016 at 2:25 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: It's not a straw-man because I'm not imputing it to you. I'm making my own point, and feeling ever more embarrassed watching you wriggle away from addressing it, to the point of asserting a fallacy that hasn't been made.

Well let me spell it out for you then. I never said that ancient artefact of 'type A' is of greater or lesser value as evidence than that of 'type B'.

(September 10, 2016 at 2:25 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: By the way, that isn't a false dichotomy anyways. A claim cannot be its own support for what I hope are reasons obvious even to you. (If you need help with this one, too, I'll be glad to oblige). 

Should I spell this out for you as well? You have arbitrarily ascribed the condition that the New Testament is "a claim to the historicity of Jesus" and therefore as it is the claim cannot be used as evidence. That's a false argument, for many reasons, not the least of which being that the historicity of Jesus is by far and away not the central claim of the New Testament, the central claim of the New Testament is that Jesus is the Jewish Messiah and has brought a New Covenant to replace/displace/add to the Mosaic Covenant. Secondly, New Testament scholars such as Bart Erhman say that the New Testament provides "hard evidence" (Bart's words) for the historicity of Jesus, and if you want to hear it for yourself from his mouth he says so in this interview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9CC7qNZkOE

"I don't think there's any serious historian who doubts the existence of Jesus"
...
"We have more evidence for Jesus than we have for almost anyone of his time period"
...
"I know thousands of scholars of the ancient world and I don't know one that doubts that Paul wrote Galatians"
...
"I'm not a Christian I'm just saying that as a historian there's no doubt: Paul wrote Galatians"
Ehrman (above)

"Rich, I’ve engaged your repeatedly stated views before. No one. No one in scholarly circles dealing with ancient Judaism and early Christianity, of any religious or non-religious persuasion holds the view that Jesus never existed. You’re entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own truth.

"Let’s move on."

Hurtado

So once again, the onus of proof is on you to provide evidence.

(September 10, 2016 at 2:25 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I think you're committing the argumentum ad fallacium fallacy -- thinking that if you throw enough baseless charges of fallacy into the discussion, you will have carried your own point.

And the fact that you add the word "deliberately" in (as you have several times now, though I've previously refrained from comment), as if you know my intent here, is laughably characteristic of you.

You are deliberately putting forward false arguments. Back it up with evidence if you can. I have not made a single baseless accusation against you, not one. If anything you are the one creating baseless accusations by claiming that certain pieces of ancient text can't be used as evidence because you say so.

Let me back this up a step. Min and I have a dispute going now for at least two years, whereby he even denies the existence of Paul, as well as Jesus. He likes to quote from Ehrman, and when I point out the video above to him that shows Ehrman saying in no uncertain terms that Paul was a historical person of the ancient world that knew the family of Jesus and the disciples of Jesus, he has nothing to say expect do what you do and try to attack my intelligence.

Now, I am giving you full opportunity to show me that scholars share those doubts. If they don't - if historians do not doubt the historicity of Jesus, then please tell me why you seem to have a prejudice against their profession.
For Religion & Health see:[/b][/size] Williams & Sternthal. (2007). Spirituality, religion and health: Evidence and research directions. Med. J. Aust., 186(10), S47-S50. -LINK

The WIN/Gallup End of Year Survey 2013 found the US was perceived to be the greatest threat to world peace by a huge margin, with 24% of respondents fearful of the US followed by: 8% for Pakistan, and 6% for China. This was followed by 5% each for: Afghanistan, Iran, Israel, North Korea. -LINK


"That's disgusting. There were clean athletes out there that have had their whole careers ruined by people like Lance Armstrong who just bended thoughts to fit their circumstances. He didn't look up cheating because he wanted to stop, he wanted to justify what he was doing and to keep that continuing on." - Nicole Cooke
Reply



Messages In This Thread
RE: Why can't Christians Verify Exactly Where Jesus Was Buried? - by Aractus - September 10, 2016 at 6:19 am

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  In your opinion what causes christians to believe in Jesus born_to_be_a_loser 25 917 January 23, 2025 at 2:09 am
Last Post: AFTT47
  360 Million Christians Suffering Persecution: why arent Atheists helping? Nishant Xavier 48 3573 July 16, 2023 at 10:05 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Atheists, if God doesnt exist, then explain why Keanu Reeves looks like Jesus Christ Frakki 9 1730 April 1, 2023 at 4:07 am
Last Post: Goosebump
  Jesus wants passionate christians purplepurpose 3 819 April 1, 2023 at 3:50 am
Last Post: Goosebump
  Why is Jesus Circumcised and not the rest of the christians ? Megabullshit 23 6331 February 9, 2020 at 3:20 pm
Last Post: BrianSoddingBoru4
  Why do so many Christians claim to be former Atheists? Cecelia 42 8014 April 1, 2018 at 9:03 pm
Last Post: The Valkyrie
  Why can't Christians Verify Exactly Where Jesus Was Buried? Firefighter01 0 551 August 31, 2016 at 3:19 am
Last Post: Firefighter01
Video The Reasons why "Just Following Jesus" Doesn't work Mental Outlaw 1346 290889 July 2, 2016 at 2:58 pm
Last Post: Redbeard The Pink
  Why I hate Right Wing Christians bussta33 31 7429 April 16, 2016 at 5:28 am
Last Post: Pat Mustard
  Historian explains why Jesus ''mythers'' aren't taken seriously by most Historians TheMessiah 456 71792 July 1, 2015 at 6:40 pm
Last Post: Minimalist



Users browsing this thread: 16 Guest(s)