Rhizomorph13 Wrote:No, none of this, we HAVE observed particles springing into being with no cause or predictable pattern. What you are doing is called special pleading.
Aside from particles, we see many other things which its cause can't be determine immediately like crime scenes etc. Does it follow that crime scenes like the particles doesn't have any cause too? Did we really found something such as particles to be without cause other than God Whom is an Uncaused Cause OR we just don't know yet? After all, particles are defined as particles. Where does its limited form came from? The crime scene is also limited in form, for there are scene that are not crime scene and we know that crime must be caused.
Rhizomorph13 Wrote:If EVERYTHING has a cause then God needs a cause. If it doesn't need a cause then nothing needs a cause. dismissed. Oh, and what about supergod? the mover of the unmoved mover?
I think this is a good time for Atheists to recognize that correct theistic argument for God's existence doesn't argue from the premise that everything has a cause and so be reluctant next time to commit straw man argument fallacy repeatedly. If you want to be free from that fallacy here, you may want to point out that what I really said is that only those which has manner of being has a cause. So, everything that has a cause, has a manner of being. But God doesn't have a manner of being. Therefore God must be Uncaused. Isn't it funny that when atheist is asking "what caused God?", they are asking an absurd question which is "what caused the Uncaused?"? It's like asking: what have you done that you haven't?
So, if the invocation of the atheist of the proposition that everything has a cause is a straw man, then pointing that "if God doesn't have cause, then nothing will have a cause" will be missing the point too.
