On Logic and Alternate Universes

[Edwardo Piet]

Yes, I know it's a violation of the law of identity, and if we're allowed to circumvent those same logical rules in response, my answer is and has been "cheesecake".

If there's a universe without the law of identity then that universe's identity is one without the law of identity which means it does have an identity which means it actually isn't without the law of identity.

You don't seem to realize what it means to violate the law of identity. It means you've not actually said what you think you've said. It means the OP's hypothetical didn't even succeed.

You can't create a tautology where you define X as being "A=not A" because tautologies don't even work without A=A.

If the OP is actually saying what the OP is actually saying then the law of identity is already implied. If the OP is not actually saying what the OP is not actually saying then the law of identity is already implied. If anything then the law of identity is already implied. ALL hypotheticals presuppose the truth of the law of identity. To say "if X then Y" implies that "If X then Y" is being said. Otherwise you're not actually saying "if X then Y". You can't create a tautology without the law of identity.

Nevertheless, the proposition regards a universe in which such laws are not in effect anyway, and in which 2+2 does actually, demonstrably yield 5,

You already admitted that that violates the law of identity. That means you're saying that the OP defines a universe where A= not A. That's a failed definition, a failed hypothetical, a failed premise.

For. Fuck's. Sake.

I know, but the existence of such a universe, or it's violation of our logical laws is not the point of contention anyway, it's explicitly -stated- to violate our laws...it has different laws, it's own laws.

Read what I said. I said it's not even a successful hypothetical or premise. I'm saying it's impossible to describe a universe without giving a universe a description. It's impossible to have a hypothetical universe without an identity. The fact that any hypothetical has an identity means that whatever it is it is whatever it is... or A=A. The Law of identity. Are you done yet trying to fight your way out of something without fighting your way out of something?