On Logic and Alternate Universes

[Edwardo Piet]

2+2=4 refers to an observed behavior between quanties in this universe.

No, it refers to two things and two things being the same thing as four things.

(I hope you appreciate that the hypothetical we've been discussing isn't even my baby, I disagree with it, and am still advocating it for no other reason than to get some strictly rational objections worked up to -it-, and not some other question.)

Just see my sig dude. You've said repeatedly you think the hypothetical is nonsense, I do too. But you think it at least exists. I do not. I think it's mentioning exists but its usage doesn't. The OP is failing to say what he is trying to say.

Remember, the logical absolutes aren't universe-dependent. A=A in all universes. 2+2=2+2 in all universes. 4=4 in all universes. 2+2=4 in all universes. Otherwise you're talking about something different, and whatever you're talking about you're talking about whatever you're talking about.

Existence itself has to be existence itself. This includes all hypotheticals. All hypotheticals have to be hypotheticals. I'm talking about potential existences, as well as actual, I'm talking about hypothetical as well as non-hypothetical. Everything has to be itself. A=A

All universes and everything whether hypothetical or not, has to follow this law. Once you understand that A=A is a logical absolute you'll understand that it transcendes all hypotheticals and all universes. You can't even imagine or hypothesize something that doesn't follow the law that A=A. You can mention or label otherwise, but you can't actually successfully say otherwise, you can't successfully engage in a hypothetical. The use/mention distinction is important here. The labelling "2=2=5" is not 2+2=5. Not is an extra thing popping into existence when you add 2 things and 2 things "2+2=5". That isn't 2+2=5 either. There is no 2+2=5 just as there are no square circles.

You. Can. Not. Even. Create. A. Tautologicality. True. Hypothetical. Without. Presupposing. The. Law. Of. Identity. And. All. Of. Its. Forms. Including. A=A. And. 4=4. And 2+2=2+2 and 2+2=4.

The converse is also true... you can't have a universe that violates that. You can't have a universe where A=not A. Or 4=not 4. or 2+2= not 2+2. Or 2+2= not 4. Or 2+2=5. You can't have any of that.

All. Hypotheticals. And. All. Universes. And. All. Existences. And. All. Realities. And. Absolutely. Everything. Else. Whether. Real. Or. Imagined. Presupposes. The. Law. Of. Identity. Beforehand. Without. Exception. And that's all 2+2=4 is saying. That 2 things and 2 things is the same as four things, that it means the same as 4. That 2+2=2+2 is the same as 4=4 or A=A.