RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept
November 8, 2016 at 11:11 am
(This post was last modified: November 8, 2016 at 11:11 am by Rhizomorph13.)
(November 8, 2016 at 8:23 am)theologian Wrote:I think, if there is a God, that he would probably have been created in his form, of his form, within the formless form of being that is a caused causal chain of sucking that can only come from a vacuum cleaner; specifically one from the 26th dimension. That is 15 more dimensions than we have in this reality sir!(November 6, 2016 at 11:24 am)Rhizomorph13 Wrote:
I understand that you fail to have the knowledge of my friend's non-contingent vacuum cleaner. You see, he is a Purple Rabbit from the 26th dimension and his vacuum cleaner created everything. Ya know, since we can just assign properties to things without evidence. So I like my vacuum cleaner theory better than the failed hypothesis of God.
You can't just say things have a cause so there must be an un-caused cause; or at least that doesn't make sense to me. There certainly isn't evidence of an unmoved mover. Just like a crime scene suggests a criminal not a non-ontological being of pure act like a Crimus Purus.
I've heard these arguments so many times and don't understand why theists think that a god is necessary but different from the rest of the universe instead of stopping one step earlier and saying the the universe might be all that there is and somehow it either just is or sprang from apparent nothing of a singularity. I certainly don't know, well except the non-contingent vacuum cleaner.
Let's see. Could the universe be the Necessary Being, the Uncaused Cause?
To answer that, let us examine whether the universe cannot have a cause or it must have a cause.
Well, the universe is must the collection of things in it. But all things in the universe have particular form and configuration. So, the universe has a particular form.
But, everything that has a particular form must be caused, for we may ask, why is it in this form instead of another? What or whom form it that way? The one which or whom formed it may have not have a particular, or it may have, which in turn must be formed by another and so on. But, it cannot go on, lest nothing will exist. But things exist. Therefore, there must be a Necessary Being, an Uncaused Cause, which cannot be the universe. To deny this is to deny both reality and logic. And that Necessary Being and Uncaused Cause is called by people: God.
Words are fun, you can create outlandish walls of text that are tearfully hard to parse and feel that you are getting somewhere. What you are doing is special pleading and you ARE forgetting to explain the 26th dimensional vacuum cleaner and why there is no super-God.
For real though I have no answers. I just find yours as convincing as my own bullshit one. It would be like explaining gravity by pleading some gravus purus that knows which direction to push things because it is omniscient and can do so because it is omnipotent. Oh, and it doesn't just crush us because it is omnibenevolent. We think there are gravitons but we haven't observed them. Gravity is a much more mundane topic than the beginning of the universe but we wouldn't want to just invent some sprite or imp that controls it rather than figure out what the mechanism really is.