Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: November 27, 2024, 2:58 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 1 Vote(s) - 1 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Supernatural isn't a useful concept
#81
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept
(November 10, 2016 at 9:50 am)theologian Wrote:
(November 10, 2016 at 3:18 am)Irrational Wrote: It's logically absurd. The only way you can get out of this is by saying God defies logic anyway. But then that would mean God could also create a square-triangle and also create an object he is unable to lift or destroy or other such absurd things.

The analogy doesn't address how time came to be because for the author to write the story (or even plan to write it) in the first place, time must have already occurred. And this is because, once again, time is automatically a correlate of act, whether it's divine or not.

God doesn't defy logic, for the basis of logic is reality, and God is Being Himself.

We may not know how He created, but we are sure that God is always in present, for time will limit God and in Him there must be no limitation.

I think the key here is to know that time doesn't exist apart from changeable substance. But, God is already perfect and unable to undergo change. Therefore, in God, there's no time.

You forgot to say that time also must exist with every process that occurs, including any mental process exercised by God. As God had to plan (mental process) in order to create, then God did not create time. Rather, time has always been.

And to be clear, I am not arguing logically from incredulity or ignorance here. My argument is not "I don't know how God could have created time, therefore God likely didn't create time". Rather, I'm arguing that timelessly creating is illogical, therefore God (if he exists) could not have created time and time must always have been.

And if, as you say, time limits God, not my problem. This is your problem to fix. Come up with a logical divine alternative then.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Rhizomorph13 - October 23, 2016 at 7:09 pm
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Edwardo Piet - October 23, 2016 at 7:25 pm
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by brewer - October 23, 2016 at 7:48 pm
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Edwardo Piet - October 23, 2016 at 7:49 pm
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Edwardo Piet - October 23, 2016 at 7:52 pm
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by ApeNotKillApe - October 23, 2016 at 8:00 pm
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Edwardo Piet - October 23, 2016 at 8:10 pm
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by ApeNotKillApe - October 23, 2016 at 8:24 pm
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Edwardo Piet - October 23, 2016 at 8:32 pm
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by ApeNotKillApe - October 23, 2016 at 8:40 pm
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Edwardo Piet - October 23, 2016 at 8:01 pm
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Edwardo Piet - October 23, 2016 at 8:02 pm
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by ApeNotKillApe - October 23, 2016 at 8:12 pm
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Minimalist - October 23, 2016 at 8:14 pm
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Angrboda - October 23, 2016 at 8:18 pm
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Edwardo Piet - October 23, 2016 at 8:30 pm
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Whateverist - October 23, 2016 at 8:49 pm
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Edwardo Piet - October 24, 2016 at 10:33 am
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by robvalue - October 24, 2016 at 1:25 am
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Rhizomorph13 - October 24, 2016 at 10:22 am
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Whateverist - October 24, 2016 at 11:48 am
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Edwardo Piet - October 24, 2016 at 10:35 am
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by downbeatplumb - October 24, 2016 at 1:08 pm
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by theologian - November 3, 2016 at 4:22 am
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Gemini - November 3, 2016 at 6:48 am
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Sal - November 3, 2016 at 7:21 am
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Alex K - November 3, 2016 at 7:41 am
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Brian37 - November 3, 2016 at 7:58 am
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Edwardo Piet - November 3, 2016 at 9:16 am
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Doubting Thomas - November 3, 2016 at 12:53 pm
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Rhizomorph13 - November 3, 2016 at 2:00 pm
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Gemini - November 3, 2016 at 3:13 pm
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Sal - November 7, 2016 at 9:50 am
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Edwardo Piet - November 3, 2016 at 3:53 pm
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by downbeatplumb - November 5, 2016 at 6:11 am
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Rhizomorph13 - November 5, 2016 at 2:20 pm
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Mudhammam - November 7, 2016 at 1:24 pm
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by theologian - November 5, 2016 at 7:21 pm
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by downbeatplumb - November 6, 2016 at 5:57 am
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Alex K - November 5, 2016 at 7:26 pm
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by theologian - November 6, 2016 at 1:18 am
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Mudhammam - November 6, 2016 at 1:31 am
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by theologian - November 6, 2016 at 3:11 am
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by theologian - November 6, 2016 at 4:55 am
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Mudhammam - November 6, 2016 at 11:11 am
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by theologian - November 8, 2016 at 7:59 am
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by chimp3 - November 8, 2016 at 8:14 am
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Grandizer - November 10, 2016 at 2:40 am
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by theologian - November 10, 2016 at 3:07 am
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Grandizer - November 10, 2016 at 3:18 am
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by theologian - November 10, 2016 at 9:50 am
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Grandizer - November 10, 2016 at 10:27 am
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Ignorant - November 10, 2016 at 6:50 pm
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Grandizer - November 11, 2016 at 9:47 am
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Ignorant - November 11, 2016 at 2:16 pm
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Grandizer - November 11, 2016 at 7:15 pm
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Ignorant - November 12, 2016 at 3:15 am
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Mudhammam - November 6, 2016 at 1:15 am
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Edwardo Piet - November 6, 2016 at 7:11 am
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by theologian - November 6, 2016 at 9:21 am
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Rhizomorph13 - November 6, 2016 at 11:24 am
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by theologian - November 8, 2016 at 8:23 am
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Rhizomorph13 - November 8, 2016 at 11:11 am
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Minimalist - November 6, 2016 at 8:31 pm
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Rhizomorph13 - November 6, 2016 at 9:41 pm
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Whateverist - November 7, 2016 at 7:27 am
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by theologian - November 8, 2016 at 9:09 pm
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by theologian - November 8, 2016 at 9:26 pm
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Rhizomorph13 - November 8, 2016 at 9:44 pm
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by Edwardo Piet - November 8, 2016 at 9:47 pm
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by theologian - November 9, 2016 at 4:31 am
RE: Supernatural isn't a useful concept - by theologian - November 10, 2016 at 2:36 am

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Testing a Hypothesis about the Supernatural Bahana 103 19367 June 18, 2018 at 2:47 pm
Last Post: SteveII
  Is the idea of self a coherent concept? bennyboy 5 1401 January 1, 2017 at 10:21 am
Last Post: Angrboda
  If a supernatural intelligence did create the universe..... maestroanth 12 2376 April 20, 2016 at 8:36 pm
Last Post: bennyboy
  Let's play with the concept of 'Supernatural' ErGingerbreadMandude 13 2455 March 22, 2016 at 4:01 am
Last Post: BrianSoddingBoru4
  New suppositions about God and the supernatural entities A-g-n-o-s-t-i-c 30 11924 January 20, 2016 at 1:53 pm
Last Post: A-g-n-o-s-t-i-c
  'Success' is an illusionary concept. CapnAwesome 24 5668 December 19, 2015 at 4:36 pm
Last Post: Edwardo Piet
  Meaninglessness of the god concept Captain Scarlet 7 3104 September 15, 2015 at 5:36 pm
Last Post: Alex25
  What is Supernatural? ErGingerbreadMandude 50 10625 September 14, 2015 at 10:35 am
Last Post: robvalue
  One philosophical argument for existence of supernatural. Mystic 59 17418 July 20, 2015 at 10:01 pm
Last Post: Cato
  Open challenge regarding the supernatural robvalue 38 6994 May 20, 2015 at 11:53 pm
Last Post: Faith No More



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)