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Atheists, tell me, a Roman Catholic: why should I become an atheist?
RE: Atheists, tell me, a Roman Catholic: why should I become an atheist?
(December 5, 2016 at 7:13 pm)operator Wrote:
(December 4, 2016 at 2:57 pm)Balaco Wrote: I know that, and depending on the atheist or theist perspective, the response to that would be that it's a test of faith (which I've seen conflicting views about), or simply that God isn't real.

So... god created us with brains that would logically tell us that he does not exist to test our faith in his existence? Which means god wants us to go against our own reason and logic and blindly follow his word? Would he want us to treat anything else with the same type of blind ignorance or loyalty? Would a loving god want us to just blindly follow anything because a claim is made by someone that doing so makes us better somehow? I think pretty much any theistic answer to this would relate to the claim that God is logical and we have to educate ourselves on that properly (however that is). Unsure how this holds up in general and in relation to the below points.

(December 4, 2016 at 2:57 pm)Balaco Wrote: I've been looking into that and need to see how theist justifications hold up logically.

Why would a book that is supposed to be the perfect and infallible word of god have any contradictions or fallacies in it? What justification can there be for that? They're not seen as contradictions/fallacies by Christians. By "justifications", I meant how Christians explain the possible contradictions/fallacies and why they don't treat them as such. If these justifications don't hold up, meaning the Bible contains blatant errors, then yeah the idea of the Bible is pretty much invalidated.

(December 4, 2016 at 2:57 pm)Balaco Wrote: Christianity seems to have so many different branches due o a mix of miscommunicated information and differing interpretations. Yet it's still relevant today, as it manages to adapt and provides justifications for supernatural events that "technically" can't be fully disproven (regardless of they're actually rational justifications). 

I definitely can see how all this can work against religion. 

So the earlier a religion was founded the more invalid its tenets and ideas? I wouldn't necessarily say that, but it does seem like a common pattern, considering ancient religions in particular. So Scientology is one of the most, if not THE most accurate religions of all time?

And does the fact that Christianity is composed of so many different denominations somehow make it more accurate because it has "survived" all of this miscommunication and error? Why would a god allow us to come up with so many incorrect interpretations of one holy, infallible book? Does that make sense to you? I won't lie, I don't know how to refute this. I don't know if I can even say it's to help us grow in our faith, as it kind of seems like the opposite to me. I'll try to get the perspective of other theists on this.

(December 4, 2016 at 2:57 pm)Balaco Wrote: From my understanding, it's seen as a test to help them grow stronger in a sense. If God isn't real, that also explains why they don't get healed, so I guess the "right" answer depends on whether God is actually real.


So your god has to allow someone to lose a limb before allowing them to grow as a person? Why couldn't god just have injected some other type of extreme circumstance in their life that would allow them to grow or change as a person? I don't know, and the theistic answers I've seen seem to conclude it's because God considers it best for them and the people around them. One theist I read about apparently considers the amputation of her then-infant son's feet to be a calling for her to be a special mother, and speak to others about God.

(December 4, 2016 at 2:57 pm)Balaco Wrote: A consequence of free will, or because there is no God. Again, the answer to that depends on whether God is real.


So god allows us the free will to be evil? He allows us to choose evil actions. From my understanding, if people have mental/psychological problems that prevent them from knowing any better/having control over their actions, they're not necessarily held responsible for them. Though I don't know why God would even allow people to be uncontrollably evil like that, so I'll probably look into it. 

So does that mean that god does not intervene or perform miracles? I can't really see how this point alone would disprove how God doesn't perform miracles.

Is fate predetermined? If so how can we have free will if our fates are predetermined? Fate is said to be determined by our actions and how they relate to the love we owe to God. Not sure how this factors in with the fact that some people are psychologically considered evil.

What about hurricanes or other natural disasters that wipe out thousands of people at a time... Are those the result of free will? Are those things caused by god? If so... does that not mean that god is cruel? Not 100% sure if God directly causes individual disasters at times, but in general He allows these terrible events to occur just like anything else in the world. I've heard it's to strengthen our faith through tough times and suffering, grow closer to victims, etc. 

(December 4, 2016 at 2:57 pm)Balaco Wrote: I was raised in the faith, and never questioned it until now (which I realize is common among theists).

So you are a Christian for no reason other than because your parents were Christians? Basically, yeah. Though I've followed and tried to grow stronger in the faith myself, of course. Obviously I can't say whether I'd even take religion seriously if my parents were atheists.

(December 4, 2016 at 2:57 pm)Balaco Wrote: By the logic of the above two, probably. Which is another reason why I feel like I need to actually question my faith rather than blindly accepting what I was born into.

So then what gives Christianity any more validity than Islam? Don't you think that Muslims feel just as strongly about their beliefs as Christians do? Who is right? That's one of many things that have come to mind lately. There's a bunch of religions in the world, and a bunch of denominations of them, all strongly believing they're right. I realized the other day that if I remain a theist after all of this, then by the same reasoning behind why I'm questioning theism in general, I'll have to look into what religion is even correct. Even if Christianity is correct, I don't even know if Roman Catholicism is even the correct Christian faith to follow.

To be completely clear, I am just trying to walk you through these questions. You are well on your way to discovering that you are an atheist, trust me. But you have to follow all of these questions through because otherwise you will be thwarted by simple, yet deceptive tactics that many theists use to just brush these questions off and act like they don't exist. Keep following these questions through. Keep searching for more and more answers. If your god is real, surely he will bring you to the conclusion that he does, in fact, exist. Thanks for your input, and you raise some points that I feel will definitely help me one way or another.. Sorry if my rebuttals are too weak or insufficient even for a theist – like I've said this is pretty much the first time I've been questioning the faith in depth, and I'm trying to stay objective and avoid preaching.
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RE: Atheists, tell me, a Roman Catholic: why should I become an atheist? - by Balaco - December 7, 2016 at 7:36 pm

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