RE: Atheists, tell me, a Roman Catholic: why should I become an atheist?
December 15, 2016 at 7:55 pm
(December 12, 2016 at 10:17 pm)Simon Moon Wrote:(December 12, 2016 at 9:40 pm)Balaco Wrote: If Catholicism for example turns out to be the "correct" faith (or if it simply has the most accurate teachings out of all religions), meaning that we as humans are supposed to love and worship God, then I would want to make sure I'm fulfilling that. Not only to avoid Hell, but to genuinely love God and genuinely fulfill the lifestyle that we would "have" to live.
So, you could actually love and worship a being that set up a system, knowing ahead of time, that the vast majority of humans will be punished for eternity?
Even if the Christian god did exist, I could not or would not love and worship such a moral monster.
I could not even consider Heaven a place I would want to be, knowing that so many of my fellow humans are being tortured for eternity for finite thought crimes.
The worst possible universe I could imagine, is one where the Christian god actually existed.
(December 13, 2016 at 4:29 am)robvalue Wrote: I don't understand how you could love something because you're supposed to love it. If we've simply been designed to mindlessly fulfil this worship role, then clearly we've broken our programming and have a choice.
Why? Why would a "God" need worship or love? Stop and think how ridiculous that is for a minute. Go outside and demand worship from an ant, and when it doesn't give it to you, pick it up and put it in the oven. (Don't really do that) That's what we're talking about here. Why would you do that?
Also, you've described Catholicism as a mugging. Join, or burn. That's essentially what it is. Yet you're also expected to love the mugger. I find this whole thing absolutely disgusting and I, personally, refuse to bow down to it.
If we really are at the mercy of such an egotistical monster, then I can't trust anything it has to say. I can spend my whole life doing whatever shit it says, and saying how much I love it, and it can turn round and bin me for no reason at all. What can I do about it?
Such a thing deserves no respect in my opinion. I'd rather do what I think is right, and if it decides to punish me, so be it. I'm not going to waste what precious time I have pretending to love a monster and following its rules. There's definitely nothing to love about it.
I definitely can see how many consider the Christian God to be morally horrible. Obviously (and expectedly) Christianity teaches us that God is the complete opposite of that...anything he does that we as humans perceive as evil or wrong supposedly has a "perfect" justification for it. I won't deny that this seems like it could merely be a convenient way to justify claims that God is purely good -- but of course growing up with a mind conditioned to interpret every single one of his actions as absolutely perfect makes it hard for me to accept the opposite. I'm sure this is at least partially why so many theists are so confident in their faith in God's goodness, regardless of if God is real. The theist mind is trained to immediately interpret events in favor of God/their faith...whether their interpretations are rational or irrational.
God's "need" for love/worship again seems to be in accordance with his supposed nature. He wants us to worship Him so that we may grow closer to Him, strengthening ourselves morally by obeying Him. Why exactly God would send us to Hell for not sufficiently worshipping Him (rather than making it optional to live "immorally" without the consequence of Hell)...I'm not sure, and I don't even know if any theists I ask will have an answer that extends past simply claiming something like "we don't know, but God has a perfect reason."
As for Heaven, I've had thoughts in the past about how we'd feel knowing so many people would burn in Hell for eternity. Christians justifications claim that in Heaven, even though we can't understand it right now, we'll be completely without negativity/negative emotions. We'd fully understand God's reason for sending so many people to Hell and be able to move on. Of course, this is based off of the basic ideas of Heaven and doesn't necessarily support the idea of Heaven.