RE: Are you still grieving? You are not alone.
December 19, 2016 at 11:34 am
(This post was last modified: December 19, 2016 at 11:37 am by Catholic_Lady.)
(Ok, so I know I said I'd stay out of this out of respect for Aroura's intention for this thread. But I just want to make one more post, which is directed at some of the responses that keep popping up here and not directed at all towards the actual OP of the thread or towards Aurora. After this, I will be done. And I hope more people will come in here out of support, and not to keep arguing with each other. And honestly A Theist, please just leave Aroura out of this. She's having a rough time. If you can't say something nice to her, just leave it be. She started this thread for support, not for criticism.)
I think the problem is some of you are missing the point we were trying to make.
What I was trying to say was, just because a person thinks "X" doesn't mean they are motivated by racist or bigoted or homophobic or xenophobic reasons. And tossing those words around at people who just see things differently than we do isn't helpful and isn't tolerant of diversity of thought. This is exactly what I was trying to say to Steel on my long post to him a few pages ago.
As an example, many people here were saying that everyone who voted for Trump is a racist. I countered this point by explaining that my dad very begrudgingly voted for Trump as the lesser of 2 evils because as much as he disliked him, he disliked Hillary more. I explained that my dad is not a racist person and that he did not like the racist comments Trump made. But some people here, who don't even know my father, insisted on telling me he was a racist bigot simply because he voted for Trump. They refuse to consider that perhaps his thinking was different than theirs was.
And as Captain said, every time he criticizes the religion of Islam, he's dismissed as being a racist even though his criticism has 0 to do with the race of most Muslims and everything to do with the ideology itself. But those who choose to call him a racist bigot anyway refuse to consider that. That right there is intolerance of thought diversity. They refuse to see that he may be thinking of it differently in a way that has 0 to do with race and everything to do with the religion itself. Have any of you watched the little talk Ben Affleck had with Bill Mayer and Sam Harris a couple years ago? Ben told both of them they were being racist because they criticized the religion of Islam.
It works this way with a lot of issues. Plenty of which Steel outlined on his post and I responded to. Don't agree with gay marriage? Oh it must be because you hate gays, you homophobe. Don't agree with abortion? Oh it must be because you hate women, you misogynist. Don't agree with letting illegal immigrants stay? Oh it must be because you hate Mexicans, you racist. Voted for Trump? Oh it must be because you hate everyone who isn't a white Christian male, you bigot.
Some people here keep saying "well, if you say or think something bigoted, I'm going to call you a bigot." But again, can't you consider for a second that perhaps their opinion on something has everything to do with a different way of looking at it and 0 to do with any sort of bigotry? That's diversity of thought. And making that consideration is tolerance for diversity of thought.
Let me turn this around for a second and show you, again, my own example of things the other way around. Among other things, I refrain from thinking ya'll support "baby killing" just because you are pro choice. Because even though I 100% see abortion as the taking of a little one's life, I understand that your motivation for being pro choice has 0 to do with killing babies, and that you simply just don't see it that way. And so I'm not going to sit here and call you baby killers for it. I'm always open to discussion about it and I'll disagree with your views on it all day long. But I'm not going to think any less of you and I'm not going to call you a horrible thing such as baby killer, because I can understand that that isn't your perspective and it isn't your motivation for being pro choice.
^That's how tolerance for diversity of thought works, and it goes both ways.
I think the problem is some of you are missing the point we were trying to make.
What I was trying to say was, just because a person thinks "X" doesn't mean they are motivated by racist or bigoted or homophobic or xenophobic reasons. And tossing those words around at people who just see things differently than we do isn't helpful and isn't tolerant of diversity of thought. This is exactly what I was trying to say to Steel on my long post to him a few pages ago.
As an example, many people here were saying that everyone who voted for Trump is a racist. I countered this point by explaining that my dad very begrudgingly voted for Trump as the lesser of 2 evils because as much as he disliked him, he disliked Hillary more. I explained that my dad is not a racist person and that he did not like the racist comments Trump made. But some people here, who don't even know my father, insisted on telling me he was a racist bigot simply because he voted for Trump. They refuse to consider that perhaps his thinking was different than theirs was.
And as Captain said, every time he criticizes the religion of Islam, he's dismissed as being a racist even though his criticism has 0 to do with the race of most Muslims and everything to do with the ideology itself. But those who choose to call him a racist bigot anyway refuse to consider that. That right there is intolerance of thought diversity. They refuse to see that he may be thinking of it differently in a way that has 0 to do with race and everything to do with the religion itself. Have any of you watched the little talk Ben Affleck had with Bill Mayer and Sam Harris a couple years ago? Ben told both of them they were being racist because they criticized the religion of Islam.
It works this way with a lot of issues. Plenty of which Steel outlined on his post and I responded to. Don't agree with gay marriage? Oh it must be because you hate gays, you homophobe. Don't agree with abortion? Oh it must be because you hate women, you misogynist. Don't agree with letting illegal immigrants stay? Oh it must be because you hate Mexicans, you racist. Voted for Trump? Oh it must be because you hate everyone who isn't a white Christian male, you bigot.
Some people here keep saying "well, if you say or think something bigoted, I'm going to call you a bigot." But again, can't you consider for a second that perhaps their opinion on something has everything to do with a different way of looking at it and 0 to do with any sort of bigotry? That's diversity of thought. And making that consideration is tolerance for diversity of thought.
Let me turn this around for a second and show you, again, my own example of things the other way around. Among other things, I refrain from thinking ya'll support "baby killing" just because you are pro choice. Because even though I 100% see abortion as the taking of a little one's life, I understand that your motivation for being pro choice has 0 to do with killing babies, and that you simply just don't see it that way. And so I'm not going to sit here and call you baby killers for it. I'm always open to discussion about it and I'll disagree with your views on it all day long. But I'm not going to think any less of you and I'm not going to call you a horrible thing such as baby killer, because I can understand that that isn't your perspective and it isn't your motivation for being pro choice.
^That's how tolerance for diversity of thought works, and it goes both ways.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
-walsh
