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I am about to ask a serious but utterly reprehensible question
#82
RE: I am about to ask a serious but utterly reprehensible question
(February 2, 2017 at 2:19 am)ronedee Wrote:
(February 1, 2017 at 7:41 pm)Astonished Wrote: So? Got any hard evidence to back up any claims or is it going to be all anecdotal or philosophical word scramble? I've heard it all, and no matter how you think you've got it figured, you really don't. Guaranteed.

No.... no hard evidence for you!

I'll try to sort through all those adjectives to answer some of your concerns...

I didn't address your subject matter (hell & related) because many vehicles are used to enslave the masses. 
I thought you cared about the child in your terrifying tale . But after witnessing your revealing testimony, 
I realized the kid was just a prop. It was more about you.

Also, you are confusing me with someone who cares..... about your salvation! Or anyone else's for
that matter. No sherlock, I'm here for you to talk me down from my religion. Its been 6 years around 
this boneyard, and nothin' yet. No one. And while I'm here, I may as well add some fuel, so to speak. 
Of course there are my brothers in Christ I will support and defend. So, those are my motives. Nothing else.

As for you? I would say you've created a nice little scenario for yourself in your op.... minus the "prop" of
course. You see, I don't spend a nanosecond thinking about hell. No profit in it. At least not for me.
I'll leave it to you and the fundies to whip up into frenzy of nonsensical hyperbole. Hell doesn't exist
for me. It may be there, It may not. I don't really care. I spend my time thinking more heavenly thoughts.

The question of God always comes down to "hard evidence". But actually the real issue is "acceptance" of Him.
Now that I have your attention.... wait a minute before you scramble to write more adjectives .... 
I'll "prove" my point!

IF God revealed Himself to you, would you pay Him homage? Would you bow down before your creator,
and Love Him? Smile and "accept" Him, and His Love?

uh.... Let me guess here. No.

You see, that is what it really comes down to. "I will not serve." And like most anti's you are your God.
And the only scenario that is real for you is the place you've created in your mind.... minus the "prop"
of course. Because there is "nothing" out there. No Thing. That is what you look for. And that is what you find.

Its actually kind of sad, and ironic that the men that you say fooled us with "dusty old pages", have fooled you too!
The search didn't stop for me. For you? that was enough evidence to condemn everything about the existence of God.

Scripture for me, is a treasure map. Not the treasure. A map is loaded with many things. And people can read it
many ways. The road is never easy. There are many obstacles, and pit falls. There may even be some dead ends
and exaggerations. But the treasure is real. Because the map is there. And using it has taken me further than I could 
imagine possible. So, I will follow it to the end. Mostly, because of my faith. And secondly? Its better than "No Thing".

An object of worship needs to be worthy of said worship. I can see you've obviously ignored every reason I outlined on why this is not the case with your god, but what the fuck ever, no surprises there that someone of faith is going to stick their fingers in their ears going 'la la la, I can't hear you' when confronted with the ugly truth about what they hold dearest.

And believe it or not, hell was actually never a problem for me. I saw right off the bat how unreasonable it was as a kid, and the moment I could no longer square the god circle (thanks to my buffoonish uncle) it was the simplest thing to cast off the entirety of it, whatever little fear there may have been vanishing like that. So why shouldn't it bother me that an 8 year old child can figure out how to reject what adults regularly fail to do, and look even more childish trying to defend? My indignation over this whole idea is on behalf of the numerous children, or adults who grew up with such childhood trauma, not my personal experience with hellish indoctrination. Because I have genuine empathy for others, not like your phony-baloney knock-off of it.

Once again, you're blaming the victim. Divine hiddenness is OUR fault, not that fuck-up Yahweh's for playing hard-to-get. Oh, yeah, he's SO worth it. His road map sucks, and gives no other hints as to how to find or communicate with him in any effective way, but of course, that's still on us, having been created ignorant of this seemingly vital information. I know this is disgustingly ironic, but for fuck's sake, do you not see how this is uncomfortably similar to telling a rape victim they didn't fight the rapist off hard enough (because remember, hell is in the balance here whether you believe in that or not; those are simply the stakes the book has been that unclear about)? I mean, I know there's a thing in the Muslim world where a woman who doesn't scream loud enough when being raped is punished for at least one of many possible imaginary offenses, but that's beside the point.

If god appeared before me in a way that was undeniable, you are correct, I would not give him any praise nor anything but contempt. He has a lot to answer for and while I'm a rationalist and will change my mind about certain firm beliefs I hold when sufficient evidence to support changing the view presents itself, he'd have to have a GOD DAMN GOOD explanation for his shitty behavior for me to look upon him as anything but the devil's evil twin. He doesn't just get let off the hook for every moment remaining behind a veil, for every indifferent turn of the head to ignore the suffering, and for his contemptible creative hand in designing things with such devastating flaws. No, respect has to be earned. Love cannot be demanded or held hostage. This emotionally unstable character simply cannot exist as described anyway, but even so, praising them for not doing their job properly, and being unqualified for the position in the first place, is an asinine proposition. You simply cannot be called a sane or reasonable person if you will not hold your god accountable for, at a minimum, not immediately and unmistakably correcting the behavior of anyone who believes they are following what he has willed. It's one thing if a person has free will but if they are exercising that free will in submission to their perceived deity, then that deity is by no means in violation of their free will by popping down here from whatever extradimensional McMansion he's lounging around in and saying, "Gee, uh, sorry you got the wrong idea, friend, but...well, that's kinda not what I had in mind...at all. So, just take that bomb vest off slowly, and let's go have a chat over coffee, my treat." THAT god? Fuckin' A, I could get behind that in a heartbeat.
Religions were invented to impress and dupe illiterate, superstitious stone-age peasants. So in this modern, enlightened age of information, what's your excuse? Or are you saying with all your advantages, you were still tricked as easily as those early humans?

---

There is no better way to convey the least amount of information in the greatest amount of words than to try explaining your religious views.
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Messages In This Thread
RE: I am about to ask a serious but utterly reprehensible question - by Astonished - February 2, 2017 at 11:38 am

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