Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: May 29, 2024, 8:39 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Trying to simplify my Consciousness hypothesis
#16
RE: Trying to simplify my Consciousness hypothesis
(February 15, 2017 at 7:32 am)bennyboy Wrote:
(February 15, 2017 at 2:37 am)DLJ Wrote: If by "physical" you include 'chemical', then what else is there?  Magic?
You can pick the non-explanation of your choice.  So far, there's neither a plausible explanation of how a physical system of any kind can be subjectively aware of what it's like to experience, nor is there any method by which to determine which physical systems do so.  In fact, there's no proof that any non-bennyboy physical system actually DOES know what it's like to drink hot chocolate, or to kiss a girl for the first time, or to have a headache.


Quote:This added bonus (pattern recognition, predictive modelling, event detection) gives us empathy (the 'knowing what it's like to") which is useful for discerning intent - whether it's "where will this mammoth run to next?" or "Is he cheating on me?" - empathy enables bonding which assists with tribal identity (in-group / out-group) which enables security and stability which aids survival.
Utility is not really a causal explanation.  The problem of consciousness isn't to determine whether it's useful-- it clearly is.  The problem is the conflation of subjective and objective perspectives, which are normally considered diametrically opposed, into a monist world view.  Specifically, why would a system governed by the rules of physics (including chemistry) ever develop something as materially useless as the capacity to experience qualia?


Take a computer for example.  No matter how complex we can make a computer, we can revise its software, make hardware improvements, and so on.  We can probably make computers that will do almost every task better than humans 100% of the time, including making driving decisions in off-road terrain and so on.  But at no point of that process would we expect to have to imbue the computer with the ability to know what its like to experience dust or blue skies-- it just has to grind through its data and output a driving behavior.

Ah. I think we've got a mix of proximate vs. ultimate "whys" going on here.

Regarding "a plausible explanation of how a physical system of any kind can be subjectively aware of what it's like to experience", I don't have a problem with the idea of self-monitoring software of our self monitoring software mapped onto a model (simulator) of self.

I wonder what it was like to experience a blue sky the first time I experienced it.

I'm not a big fan of this 'qualia' notion. Something that has not been adequately defined is not very useful, philosophically speaking.
The PURPOSE of life is to replicate our DNA ................. (from Darwin)
The MEANING of life is the experience of living ... (from Frank Herbert)
The VALUE of life is the legacy we leave behind ..... (from observation)
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Trying to simplify my Consciousness hypothesis - by Won2blv - February 13, 2017 at 11:04 pm
RE: Trying to simplify my Consciousness hypothesis - by Won2blv - February 14, 2017 at 12:04 pm
RE: Trying to simplify my Consciousness hypothesis - by DLJ - February 14, 2017 at 2:02 pm
RE: Trying to simplify my Consciousness hypothesis - by DLJ - February 14, 2017 at 8:00 am
RE: Trying to simplify my Consciousness hypothesis - by DLJ - February 14, 2017 at 12:34 am
RE: Trying to simplify my Consciousness hypothesis - by Won2blv - February 15, 2017 at 11:50 am
RE: Trying to simplify my Consciousness hypothesis - by DLJ - February 15, 2017 at 2:37 am
RE: Trying to simplify my Consciousness hypothesis - by DLJ - February 15, 2017 at 11:14 am
RE: Trying to simplify my Consciousness hypothesis - by DLJ - February 15, 2017 at 11:42 am
RE: Trying to simplify my Consciousness hypothesis - by DLJ - February 15, 2017 at 11:02 pm
RE: Trying to simplify my Consciousness hypothesis - by DLJ - February 16, 2017 at 11:22 am
RE: Trying to simplify my Consciousness hypothesis - by emjay - February 16, 2017 at 6:23 pm
RE: Trying to simplify my Consciousness hypothesis - by emjay - February 16, 2017 at 9:33 pm
RE: Trying to simplify my Consciousness hypothesis - by emjay - February 16, 2017 at 12:57 pm
RE: Trying to simplify my Consciousness hypothesis - by DLJ - February 17, 2017 at 9:21 am
RE: Trying to simplify my Consciousness hypothesis - by emjay - February 17, 2017 at 8:26 pm
RE: Trying to simplify my Consciousness hypothesis - by emjay - February 18, 2017 at 10:29 am
RE: Trying to simplify my Consciousness hypothesis - by emjay - February 18, 2017 at 11:54 am
RE: Trying to simplify my Consciousness hypothesis - by Won2blv - February 18, 2017 at 12:57 pm
RE: Trying to simplify my Consciousness hypothesis - by emjay - February 18, 2017 at 1:37 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Good read on consciousness Apollo 41 2671 January 12, 2021 at 4:04 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  How could we trust our consciousness ?! zainab 45 5005 December 30, 2018 at 9:08 am
Last Post: polymath257
  Testing a Hypothesis about the Supernatural Bahana 103 16727 June 18, 2018 at 2:47 pm
Last Post: SteveII
  Consciousness Trilemma Neo-Scholastic 208 57196 June 7, 2017 at 5:28 pm
Last Post: bennyboy
  My thoughts on the Hard problem of consciousness Won2blv 36 5719 February 15, 2017 at 7:27 am
Last Post: bennyboy
  A hypothesis about consciousness Won2blv 12 4039 February 12, 2017 at 9:31 pm
Last Post: Won2blv
  Foundation of all Axioms the Axioms of Consciousness fdesilva 98 14418 September 24, 2016 at 4:36 pm
Last Post: Bunburryist
  Consciousness is simply an illusion emergent of a Boltzmann brain configuration.... maestroanth 36 5736 April 10, 2016 at 8:40 am
Last Post: Little lunch
  God of the gaps, magical hypothesis, philosophical meandering. schizo pantheist 36 8362 January 23, 2015 at 12:04 am
Last Post: SteelCurtain
  Trying to Understand Many-Worlds Interpretation Better GrandizerII 45 7163 November 29, 2014 at 5:05 pm
Last Post: Alex K



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)