RE: A discussion with tack
July 4, 2011 at 5:38 pm
(This post was last modified: July 4, 2011 at 5:45 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I'm sorry, I have a tendency to be flowery with language. Regarding what it means to be a god, I agree with you, the concept is nebulous, but it hasn't always been so. In fact some gods proposed were very specific...these gods fell by the wayside when we found better explanations for things such as rain, just to give one example. I understand the underpinnings of the deists argument of god, no sense in rehashing them at all. I'm simply stating that the deists god, which does not answer prayers, interact with us..whatever..is the product of the constant erosion of the theists claims. If a believer wants to argue for God, with a capital G, they're going to have to do better than plug god into whatever we don't currently have an explanation for. That's a god of the gaps. Saying that god only needs to create us to be god, is strikingly similar to saying, "I don't know how we got here..ergo god". Maybe it only bothers me when a theist responds to the statement "Your god is not real" with the contention that the deists god cannot be conclusively shown not to exist. That's not what they're arguing for at all is it, we've let them pull a bait and switch haven't we.
We don't have to refute the deist concept of god to invalidate the theist concept of god. Further, it doesn't matter whether the deists concept of god is logically possible...that doesn't address the theists argument does it ? Logically proving that any concept of god COULD exist may be a wonderful exercise in logic, or rhetoric...but it completely fails to invalidate the absolutely stunning amount of evidence that we have leading us to the conclusion that gods are mans invention. Sometimes, it seems, a debate can become so technical that one loses sight of the fact that we're debating over something that exists in the real world. Stories, myths, drawings on caves..these are real things in the real world, all following patterns of progression..all influenced by earlier narratives or the storytellers unique position in time or geography.
Does that help to simplify my position?
And for the record..I don't define a god, it's believers do. A god is a list of attributes or actions ascribed to a supernatural cause by those who believe. It can be the god of the whole damned thing (christian god) or the God of Biscuits with Holes in Them. In the end I really don't have any say in what someone defines a god to be do I? I just insist, that when they make such certain claims, they be able to back it up with more than hot air and thoughtful philosophical debates.
We don't have to refute the deist concept of god to invalidate the theist concept of god. Further, it doesn't matter whether the deists concept of god is logically possible...that doesn't address the theists argument does it ? Logically proving that any concept of god COULD exist may be a wonderful exercise in logic, or rhetoric...but it completely fails to invalidate the absolutely stunning amount of evidence that we have leading us to the conclusion that gods are mans invention. Sometimes, it seems, a debate can become so technical that one loses sight of the fact that we're debating over something that exists in the real world. Stories, myths, drawings on caves..these are real things in the real world, all following patterns of progression..all influenced by earlier narratives or the storytellers unique position in time or geography.
Does that help to simplify my position?
And for the record..I don't define a god, it's believers do. A god is a list of attributes or actions ascribed to a supernatural cause by those who believe. It can be the god of the whole damned thing (christian god) or the God of Biscuits with Holes in Them. In the end I really don't have any say in what someone defines a god to be do I? I just insist, that when they make such certain claims, they be able to back it up with more than hot air and thoughtful philosophical debates.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
