(February 28, 2017 at 1:16 pm)abaris Wrote:(February 28, 2017 at 1:08 pm)Crunchy Wrote: I'm thinking you may not have liked that I lay blame on liberal atheists, but I do hold them up to a higher standard than conservative theists in this matter. I know why conservative theists give religion a free pass, and I believe that liberal atheists give religion a free pass because they conflate race and religion.
No, because the slogans come right out of Goebbels book. If you watched some of his speeches on jews, you would notice that it's partly a word for word rendition of what he said. Only changing the word jew to muslim.
If that kind of approach isn't clear, nothing is. Race is entirely secondary, since racism is only the son of bigotry, same as antisemitism. And bigotted this is. So one finds themselve in the peculiar situation of coming to the defense, since this isn't aimed at religion. It's aimed at people, a whole broad brushed group of them. And one can't have that, unless one wants a second helping of what happened in the 1940ies at some point in time.
People are already incited and ready to jump at every opportunity to share their suspicions and hatred. It only takes a little more pushing to turn that into violent action. In fact, obviously it doesn't, going what happened at that mosque a few weeks ago. It's already started, and not a single word from the likes of Trump. Different country, sure, but he's quick to invent international incidents to condemn them, such as the bullshit on Sweden. A real one doesn't rock his boat apparently. Not if it's directed against the right people and a white supremacist doing it - in his name.
You are correct that there are many racists out there, but I don't see how that is an excuse for engaging in race baiting. The two can and do occur at the same time.
When you said that “It's aimed at people, a whole broad brushed group of them.” you are not making a distinction between criticism of people and an ideology. You are leaving no room at all for criticism of the ideology and it is absolutely necessary for all ideologies to be subject to the critical process. You brought up concerns over Goebbels beliefs, but surely you must realise that the doctrines of Islam and Nazism share a great deal in common. In your analogy, Goebbels is representative of Islam and is therefore due for much criticism.
Having said that I think you have a very good point though. There is clearly a danger in identifying the intolerant and violent nature of islam and having that conflated with the humans who follow islam. There is a tight rope that we have to walk between criticism of a clearly xenophobic and misogynistic ideology and the people who have been culturally indoctrinated into it over the centuries.
But we must walk the tightrope and make the distinctions anyway. It is not helpful for politicians to lie and tell us that islam is a religion of peace. It is not helpful to label critics like Sam Harris and Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Bill Maher as racists and spread lies about them. If we are to engage in a battle of ideas, we have to be able to openly and honestly face them and not let the discussion be sidelined by race baiting. I share your concern about Muslims being targeted by racists and steps must be taken to protect them but I am also concerned about the people the world over who are targeted by Islamic ideology. It’s not an either/or situation.
If god was real he wouldn't need middle men to explain his wants or do his bidding.