RE: What is the logic in "life after death"?
March 6, 2017 at 6:47 pm
(This post was last modified: March 6, 2017 at 7:18 pm by Simon Moon.)
(March 6, 2017 at 5:25 pm)SteveII Wrote:(March 6, 2017 at 4:56 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: Please let me know how to discover your god without my having to appeal to fallacious arguments (like ad populum fallacy, in the first sentence in your response), insufficient demonstrable evidence, and lack of reasoned argument. [1]
Far from exaggeration. I could list paragraphs of legitimate hurdles that have to be overcome for me to justify belief. [2]
No, we are hardwired to be pattern seeking beings and agency detectors. This hardwiring translates to belief in the supernatural. [3]
There is no evidence in the natural world other than the natural. Our pattern seeking and exaggerated agency detection superimposes gods over the natural world. [4]
I am well aware of the dogma and doctrine.
How would I go about accepting any of what you state above, without first believing that this god exists? Sorry, but I am not susceptible to circular logic. [5]
1. A response to your assertion that God is somehow hard to find with all the confusion by pointing out the billions who didn't find things as confusing as you make them to be is certainly not a fallacy. It is undercutting evidence that your premise of as to the hiddenness of God is wrong.
2. Did you try to find the answers to these supposed hurdles? There are so few objections to Christianity that have not been answered over and over for thousands of years.
3. That is just a theory you could not possibly know is true or ever have a hope of testing (non-falsifiable).
4. The very existence of the natural world is evidence.
5. What is evidence of God existing? Miracles? There is a whole catalog of them in the NT. Nothing circular there.
(March 6, 2017 at 5:21 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: The same way I'd explain conversions to other god beliefs besides yours. [1]
I always state that there is insufficient and poor evidence. Anecdotal evidence is evidence, just very bad evidence.
It is not our fault that what theists claim is evidence is not convincing. Would you give any credence to similar types of evidence as you provide, provided by believers in other gods to support their beliefs? [2]
1. Which is?
People believe existential claims for all sorts of reasons, some are good reasons (demonstrable evidence, valid and sound logic), some are bad (ancient texts, anecdotal, personal experience).
People of all religions have their ancient texts, personal experiences, etc, just like you have.
Quote:2. I find the evidence compelling. Would I if I was not raised in a Christian home? I don't know the answer to that. However, we can see from tens of millions of adult conversions a year that some find it compelling. I do think that Christianity is the best evidenced religion of all time. Even if you find it insufficient, wouldn't you agree on that point?
Again, people as adults convert to all sorts of religions. The fact that some convert to Christianity lends absolutely no evidence that it is true.
(March 6, 2017 at 5:25 pm)SteveII Wrote:(March 6, 2017 at 4:56 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: Please let me know how to discover your god without my having to appeal to fallacious arguments (like ad populum fallacy, in the first sentence in your response), insufficient demonstrable evidence, and lack of reasoned argument. [1]
Far from exaggeration. I could list paragraphs of legitimate hurdles that have to be overcome for me to justify belief. [2]
No, we are hardwired to be pattern seeking beings and agency detectors. This hardwiring translates to belief in the supernatural. [3]
There is no evidence in the natural world other than the natural. Our pattern seeking and exaggerated agency detection superimposes gods over the natural world. [4]
I am well aware of the dogma and doctrine.
How would I go about accepting any of what you state above, without first believing that this god exists? Sorry, but I am not susceptible to circular logic. [5]
1. A response to your assertion that God is somehow hard to find with all the confusion by pointing out the billions who didn't find things as confusing as you make them to be is certainly not a fallacy. It is undercutting evidence that your premise of as to the hiddenness of God is wrong.
Yes, finding the Christian god is so simple, that the majority of theists find a different god or gods. Nice planning there, Yahweh.
Quote:2. Did you try to find the answers to these supposed hurdles? There are so few objections to Christianity that have not been answered over and over for thousands of years.
Sure did. They are far from convincing to anyone not looking to have their confirmation bias reinforced. Most are blatantly fallacious.
Apologists from other religions have similar 'answers' to the hurdles of buying into their religions.
Quote:3. That is just a theory you could not possibly know is true or ever have a hope of testing (non-falsifiable).
There are 1000's of experimental evidence that supports this.
Quote:4. The very existence of the natural world is evidence.
Circular logic.
"God created the natural world. The natural world exists. Therefore, it is proof that god created the natural world".
Nicely played sir, nicely played!
Quote:5. What is evidence of God existing? Miracles? There is a whole catalog of them in the NT. Nothing circular there.
Texts written by ancient, superstitious tribesmen that include some miracle stories is not evidence.
The NT is THE claim, it is not evidence.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
