RE: Theists: What is the most compelling argument you have heard for Atheism?
March 15, 2017 at 8:51 pm
(March 15, 2017 at 6:53 pm)PETE_ROSE Wrote:(March 15, 2017 at 5:24 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote: Better question is: what would dissuade you from your religion? If you're a Christian and let's say you somehow got in possession of time machine and you went into the past like 2000 years and you saw Jesus being crucified, but that he didn't resurrect and you see it with your eyes his disciples making it up, would you still believe?
Or if you went in the same time period and you saw bunch of guys claiming they're messiah, but they all look fake, so Jesus from the Bible never existed and you saw people making him up by mixing all sorts of mythologies, would you still believe?
Would I still believe? Of course not. Christianity's lynchpin is the resurrection of Christ. But I completely disagree that you posed a better question. I think the term found here most often is strawman argument.
I would flip the question to you sir and ask if in your time machine travels you observed the crucifixion and resurrection would you change your beliefs? I understand you would be forced to acknowledge the truth and evidence you would be confronted with; but would you change your worldview or faith or more specifically your relationship with God?
(March 15, 2017 at 5:38 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: An argument for atheism? Hmmm…. I’ll go with divine hiddenness. When I was an atheist, I found the silence of God in response to earnest prayer troubling.
What? You sir, were an atheist? I thought all of us were indoctrinated and brainwashed as children. Surely you must be a desperate, emotionally clingy, special snowflake, science denying, math illiterate rube to have left enlightenment and come to the dark side. ?
I concur that divine hiddenness would be near the top of the list. Thank you for your input.
(March 15, 2017 at 6:15 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: When I was a theist, the most compelling argument I ever heard for atheism was, "Read the bible fully."
I did. It worked.
What specifically stood out to you? Doesn't have to be anything comprehensive, just the top 5 or 6 things that come to mind?
Genesis
The Flood (Absolutely NO evidence for a global flood). Yes, I know the flood was likely regional and that, to humans at the time, a large flood might see to encompass their entire world, but their are just too many similarities with other, older, stories.
Exodus (40 years to cross the Sinai? Alexander travelled to India and back in 8, fighting battles along the way).
Incest required to populate the earth, not once, but twice.
Sodom and Gomorrah: The only good person who could be found was a man who would willingly let his daughters get gang raped by a mob to save two strangers. But an all knowing god wouldn't require someone else to locate a good person in these cities because he's supposed to know what goes on in a person's thoughts, right?
Millions of Jewish slaves in Egypt? There's no indication that there ever were millions, or even hundreds of thousands of slaves in Egypt at any time, ever.
Adam and Eve: an all-knowing god who creates the entire universe happens to put the one tree humans aren't allowed to eat from in the garden those humans are in, and then can't keep a serpent (the devil) out?
And, for that matter, Satan himself. Only humans have free will, but a third of the angels are able to rebel? That's an indication of free will right there.
Abraham and Isaac: God, who again knows all, wants to test the man's faith so demands he sacrifice his son. Only to have an angel go, "oh, Just kidding!" Not, god, but an angel.
Jesus, supposedly also all-knowing, all at least divine, cursing a fig tree for not producing fruit out of season.
Just a few.
This isn't to mention the contradictions, bad editing, etc. throughout the book. Or the fact that out of all the various gospels, HUMANS, supposedly representing the deity, chose which books should and should not be included in it. God couldn't step in and have them all added? After all, the bible we have today is a mere shadow of what it would be if it was complete.
It would be like whole chapters missing from a popular novel
Playing Cluedo with my mum while I was at Uni:
"You did WHAT? With WHO? WHERE???"