RE: Theists: What is the most compelling argument you have heard for Atheism?
March 16, 2017 at 11:49 am
(This post was last modified: March 16, 2017 at 11:51 am by Brian37.)
(March 16, 2017 at 11:31 am)Whateverist Wrote:(March 16, 2017 at 9:51 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: People have different opinions about what is far-fetched or absurd do they not? I find the Dawkins's notion that we are "biological robots in a meaningless universe" and Dennett/Churchland's assertions about consciousness being an illusion - both of those - absurd. I also find the notion that facts about nature can supply any kind of moral values far-fetched. And those are just the start of a whole host of conclusions that I see as ridiculous responses to the human condition. The idea of an intelligent self-sustaining ground of being seems far less implausible to me.
Apparently they/we do. The difference I see is that the things you find far fetched are the assumption that there are natural causes for observed and/or inferred phenomena, even though we've had lots of experience historically with moving from a position of not or mis- understanding phenomena to seeing better and better how natural systems fit together. The thing I find far fetched is the inference of an unnatural agent with powers surpassing anything ever observed based on no observation whatsoever - well, unless you count attributions to it to explain away our ignorance. I'm just way more comfortable acknowledging our ignorance which is an ordinary and common phenomenon.
To Neo...... Show me a direct quote of of Dawkins saying "we are biological robots in a meaningless universe"..... source that. Saying that the universe is ultimately meaningless is true, but that does not make humans robots who lack empathy for others, nor does it mean the time we have now as humans isn't important, it is. Saying that evolution is all life is and does not require a magic super hero to explain, does not mean atheists cant value art, empathy and emotions. It just means we don't explain those things with superstition or myth.
"Consciousness is an illusion" that one too, theists have a tendency to take what atheists say out of context. It is and it is not. It is a very real outcome of evolution, but our perceptions of reality are quite often flawed as a species. Even Einstein's theory of relativity and modern QM tell us that we are stuck in our own macro slice of space/time and if we could move to a different dimension, or different slice in the bread loaf of space/time, our point of view would be different. In that context our consciousness IS an illusion. Just like a passenger jet 747 on the ground gives us the illusion that it is really big, but when it is 30,000 feet in the air and we are looking up at it from the ground, the reality becomes that the jet really is not that big when compared to other objects such as clouds, or the earth.
