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Theists: What is the most compelling argument you have heard for Atheism?
RE: Theists: What is the most compelling argument you have heard for Atheism?
(March 17, 2017 at 6:55 pm)Brian37 Wrote:
(March 17, 2017 at 3:28 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: I'd start here. I cannot recommend it strongly enough. If he develops his thoughts on Mark demonstrating (contrary to received opinion) a high christology further it will surely have a profound effect on NT scholarship.

Reading Backwards

There is no "NT scholorship" anymore than being an expert on Star Wars makes Yoda real. Theologians are apologists nothing more. 

"Reading Backwards" yea so what? The first 3 original Star Wars movies ended up being prequels to which the following new movies were written after the fact to be stories BEFORE the original 3. 

There is no evidence that a man named Jesus existed outside the bible's claims to confirm he existed. The oldest gospel was written way after the alleged death of the Jesus Character.[1] Josephus does not count and also was not an "eyewitness". The first compiled completed book didn't get voted on until 329 at the Council of Nicea. [2] It took over 1,000 years from the OT to the first VOTED ON completed bible and over 40 authors with books left out. [3] It seems inefficient to me to have an alleged "all powerful" god take all that time and use flawed humans to complete it with even further revisions and newer versions since. Not to mention in that 1700 years since the first completed version even among Christian sects humans have been arguing and even murdering over those different interpretations. [4]

But lets pretend he did exist, he didn't, but lets pretend he did. He would not have been a god or the "son of a god". He would have simply been a man who looked at the current surrounding religions and decided to start a new one. Just like L Ron Hubbard, a si fi writer conned people so much Scientology was started. Nobody magically is born without a second set of DNA. Nobody survives the act of torture the death story would have you believe. 

The way the NT is written reads like people trying to score political points using a popular name of that era trying to compete to create a new movement. [5] It is far more likely during the alleged time that a legend was created over a movement to which a minority group stood up to authority. [6] Much like Plato's Apology is a story not a real account of Socrates challenge to authority. Everyone likes an underdog story.

It does not matter to me one bit if he existed, there is no evidence he did. It still would not make men with magic super powers real. It would merely mean a person managed to split off from the social norms of the time and start a new business. [7] No different than when Coke and Pepsi compete. No different than saying Yuengling beer is much older than Budweiser but both are still beer, and even today you have aspiring brewers making beer in their homes hoping to make it big.

There is no such thing as a magic baby with super powers and nobody survives rigor mortis. [8] There are just humans whom market claims, some truly believe what they claim, and some are flat out con artists and don't care.

1. One significant thing you seem to be overlooking is that without Jesus, there are no Christians. There is ample evidence of Christians and their beliefs outside the NT:
   A. EVIDENCE: There were churches in many major cities stretching from Palestine to Rome before Paul started to write his letters to them around 50ad. Not only were there churches, but they believed in the major events outlined in the gospels prior to the gospels and Paul's letters
   B. EVIDENCE: Tacitus referred to the large community of Christians in Rome regarding the events of 64AD
   C. EVIDENCE: Thallus discussed the crucifixion of Jesus around 52AD. His work is lost but was referenced by Julius Africanus in 221AD.
   D. EVIDENCE: Pliny the Younger asked Emperor Trajan in 112 on how to deal with the Christians. 
   E. EVIDENCE: Despite your attempt to exclude, Josephus was a historian writing mainly about the political struggle of the Jews with Rome for which Jesus was not an important figure (yet). Since Jesus was not of interest to Josephus' overall goal, his mention is important in confirming he existed. 
   F. EVIDENCE: Later the Talmud calls Jesus a sorcerer and that his power comes from evil spirits--which 1) recognizes Jesus exists and 2) does not deny the miracles--only their source

You may not like the evidence, but there is large amounts of evidence that points to the fact that Jesus not only walked the earth, but people genuinely believed he was the Son of God that came to make possible a relationship with God. 

2. The Christian community had decided long before 329 what books were to be regarded as authority. The way you summarize it is intentional because you think it strengthens your argument. However, it ignores actual facts.

3. The Jews would disagree. Ask them--they wrote it. 

4. Your complaint seems to be with people. 
 
5. Nope. It would be abhorrent to a Jew to propose (let alone find followers for) a new religion that deifies someone in order to play some long-game where any goals would not be achieved for generations. Your conspiracy theory is nonsense. 

6. Talk about no evidence. 

7. You cannot get around the fact that there is ample evidence that people believed the claims of Jesus immediately following his death--even prior to them being written down in the Gospels. You need to come up with a theory that accounts for all the evidence that is more plausible than what it appears to be. You have not. 

8. Your objection to the whole story seems to be that miracles do not happen. Well, if you object to evidence that miracles happen by saying we can't accept that because miracles don't happen, you are just arguing in a circle.

(March 20, 2017 at 2:07 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:
(March 20, 2017 at 1:54 pm)AceBoogie Wrote: LMFAO.

/thread

I will lump all the theists, deists and pantheists into one and explain why there are all wrong.

They appeal to the supernatural and there is no evidence that supernatural is a thing.

The end.

Along with other things, the NT contains all kind of evidence. So, there seems to be evidence. You may not know enough about it to find it compelling evidence, but you can't make the claim there is none.
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Messages In This Thread
RE: Theists: What is the most compelling argument you have heard for Atheism? - by SteveII - March 20, 2017 at 2:10 pm

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