What is logic?

[Little Rik]

Wrong again Luc.
Nothing to do with arrogant and all to do with practice.
Practice lead to the realization whether the theory is correct or not.
What you think is practice is not.
Consciousness is an abstract entity remember that Luc.
Scientists do not understand yet that to understand the abstract you got to use an abstract tool not a physical one and this is the very point that scientists still have to understand that is why they are not getting anywhere.  

I'm sorry but this is simply not true. If consciousness is such an abstract entity, how come damage to the brain can result in severely altered states of consciousness?
I mean look at this:

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage (it's in Italian for your convenience)

Easy explained Luc.
When you drive your car and you get involved in an accident you car get smashed and most of the time you too get injured.
The consciousness being an abstract entity can not really get damaged but because is stuck inside the
pineal gland and the brain when the brain get damaged the consciousness that rely on the brain as his source of energy can not work properly that is why .............can result in severely altered states of consciousness........ as you say.

As far as the person is alive the consciousness is stuck inside this body-brain but as soon as the body-brain die the consciousness separate.
Even if the body was smashed under a roller machine the consciousness will not be touched.
She is immortal.

Even if it was something beyond what we can physically explain, then what would it be? How would you go about testing your hypothesis that consciousness is abstract and exists independently from the brain?

1) Energy and consciousness are the two sides of the same sheet.
One can not exist without the other.
Even science say that energy can not be destroyed so if energy can not be destroyed also consciousness
can not be destroyed.
2) NDEs are the evidence that consciousness never die so it is clear that consciousness once the body die
will be independent from the body.  

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Wrong again Luc.
Nothing to do with arrogant and all to do with practice.
Practice lead to the realization whether the theory is correct or not.
What you think is practice is not.
Consciousness is an abstract entity remember that Luc.
Scientists do not understand yet that to understand the abstract you got to use an abstract tool not a physical one and this is the very point that scientists still have to understand that is why they are not getting anywhere.  

It becomes apparent that you haven't got a clue how science in general works, let alone neuroscience.

Neuroscience deals with the anatomy, biochemistry, molecular biology, and physiology of neurons and neural circuits.
That has nothing to do with consciousness and physical science as well has nothing to do with consciousness.

I guess you never thought about that Alex, did you?  

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Your analysis badly miss something.
Psychology can only reach a certain point.
The mind is like an iceberg.
We can only see the above part.
If we want to see the part below the water we have to go under the water.
The mind is not all the same.
There is the conscious mind and the unconscious mind.
To understand the conscious mind is not a big deal but to see the unconscious mind it is.
Psychology is not the best tool to see below.
All psychology can do is to see the above part and guess what lie under in the unconscious mind
but guessing is not good enough that is why I wouldn't take for granted what psychology say.

To know what lie under in the unconscious mind a person must undertake a lot of hard work.
Is not so simple.
It takes practice and a lot of it.
Psychology doesn't undertake practice so there is no way that psychology will ever be able to understand the mind in full and here I mean the conscious and the unconscious mind.  

Ultimately I don't disagree with how you view the mind. I agree with your analogy of the conscious mind being the proverbial tip of the iceberg, which does not, normally, have access to what's below the water.

The difference though I guess is I don't see quite such a strong boundary line between conscious and subconscious... so I'd use a slightly different analogy. It's not a perfect analogy but I think it's good enough to make my point. I'd liken normal conscious awareness to a raging storm, where the wind is conscious attention, and the waves are things on which you can focus your attention. In everyday life you deal with these waves as they come at you, focusing your attention where needed (i.e. in this analogy blowing a wind), and that keeps the storm raging. But meditation deprives the waves of wind, and thus allows the storm to start to calm. The bigger waves disperse leaving smaller and subtler waves below them, which are now available to focus attention on. Deprive them of wind and they disperse, leaving even smaller waves. Deprive them of wind and there may only be ripples left. So at the end, according to this analogy, the perfect state... the state of an arahant... would be no waves at all, just a perfectly clear and still lake, as if it was ice.

That's roughly how I view meditation and what is going on during it. But I still don't call it spiritual, only psychological. But then, I use the word psychological to refer to anything of the mind, so it may or may not be the case that we are referring to the same things, just using different terminology.

All that said, I'm not that accomplished in meditation... the longest I've done is about an hour and I've never reached states like that. But I freely admit I'm not fully committed to Buddhism (I know you're not a Buddhist... but there are similarities) and therefore that, as you say, I'm only scratching the surface of what's possible with my level of involvement, but that's enough for me; as a perspective on life, even 'Buddhism-lite' has improved my life hundred-fold, and I wouldn't trade it for anything, so I'm happy with where I am, and all this recent discussion of it has sparked my interest again because I'd let it slip a bit.

But you do sound like you are an accomplished meditator? If you don't mind me asking, how long do you do it for and how frequently? And what sorts of experiences have you had in meditation?

I practice meditation twice a day but let us remember that meditation alone is not enough to trigger more
awareness in the consciousness.
Once you start the path of spirituality you got to get ready for a war.
A war against that force that try to make you sink toward materialism.
An a war to extiguish your karma.
In a war you need the army the air force the navy the intelligence and so on so you got to fight with all
that you got available.
In this way you do meditation you do asanas (exercises) you eat a vegetarian or vegan diet you help those in need you follow a code of conduct and so on.
If you fight according the instruction from your guru you can be sure that you will be the winner.